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Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
Doug M. #3038908 10/24/20 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
In my hands, I felt the newest Roland action on the LX708 was a very mild improvement on the PHA50, nothing more than a subtle evolution. If one is used to proper acoustic actions, I think a hybrid is the way to go.

Thanks Doug. That's interesting. I haven't really heard a lot about it, which surprises me. I like the PHA50 as it's fairly easy to move back and forth between it and acoustic grands. I suppose there's not going to be big enough difference to warrant an upgrade.

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Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
Doug M. #3038940 10/24/20 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
In my hands, I felt the newest Roland action on the LX708 was a very mild improvement on the PHA50, nothing more than a subtle evolution. If one is used to proper acoustic actions, I think a hybrid is the way to go.

Is that the PHA-100? It looks like the exact same action with a somewhat longer (maybe 2 cm) key to the pivot point. Interesting, but probably not worth spend a ton of extra money for if one has the PHA-50 already.


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland DP-603, Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Yamaha MX61, PianoTeq Stage 6 (Bechstein, Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo), Roland KC-80
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3038941 10/24/20 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by whyarenamestaken
This is super helpful. Thanks a lot. I saw that prices at popular chain retailers are lower than MSRP. By 15% off, do you mean discounts like this? I didn't know about Kawai ES920, and I should definitely look into it. That said, both Kawai ES920 and Yamaha P515 are cheaper than Roland FP90. You said you preferred FP90 to P-515, but did you think FP90 was worth putting extra? And thank you for the encouragement! I quit playing the piano while practicing the first movements of Mozart's Sonata No. 6 and 16 for a small competition more than 15 years ago. But I've played other instruments for the time being, so hopefully I still have ears that are musical enough to judge which one is good for me. laugh

Disregard MSRP completely; it is pure fiction for digital pianos in the US. There is a certain price well below MSRP which most retailers agree is the regular price, and that's what they advertise. Most manufacturers prohibit advertising at less than this price, as part of their distribution agreements. However, retailers can and do sell at less than the regular price, and the 15% discount is off this price.

As an example, MSRP for the Yamaha DGX-660 is $1299. The regular selling price is $799, and any discount would be off this price. I was very lucky to get it for $565 plus some freebies, and think that $679 (i.e., 15% off $799) would be considered a good deal.

Considering we are close to the holiday shopping season, I would wait to see what deals show up in the next 4-6 weeks, not only on Black Friday itself. Your local retailer may happily match an online deal and you could then reward the place where you tested the instrument.

I recall that I was ready to take a 15%-off deal in October 2017, but employees at a local dealer advised me to wait for their Thanksgiving week 20%-off deal, and then Yamaha kicked in an additional $75 with a microphone and other goodies on Black Friday.

Mozart's Sonata No. 6 (K. 284) is my favorite of his sonatas. If you can play at that high level, you seriously don't need my advice on touch and tone. Don't overthink it; you have the capabilities to make the right decision *for you*.

The Kawai ES920, Roland FP90 and Yamaha P-515 are all great digital pianos, in the sweet spot for value. So now go and test play all of them with the same pieces covering a range of dynamics and color. Just be aware that you may have to compromise -- the best touch may well be on a different piano than the one with the best tone. I would take better touch over better tone if the latter was "good enough", but that's for you to decide over the next few weeks.

Then, be prepared to pounce when the right deal shows up. Good luck!

Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
johnstaf #3038943 10/24/20 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Doug M.
In my hands, I felt the newest Roland action on the LX708 was a very mild improvement on the PHA50, nothing more than a subtle evolution. If one is used to proper acoustic actions, I think a hybrid is the way to go.

Thanks Doug. That's interesting. I haven't really heard a lot about it, which surprises me. I like the PHA50 as it's fairly easy to move back and forth between it and acoustic grands. I suppose there's not going to be big enough difference to warrant an upgrade.

I understand it has undergone pivot enlargement wink

Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3038954 10/24/20 01:54 PM
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LOL I had to check to see that ^ response wasn't from Pete14


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3038955 10/24/20 01:57 PM
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Quote
I understand it has undergone pivot enlargement

Actually only the Ebony keys got that treatment wink


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
EPW #3038961 10/24/20 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by EPW
LOL I had to check to see that ^ response wasn't from Pete14
Ha, I did the same thing. smile


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland DP-603, Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Yamaha MX61, PianoTeq Stage 6 (Bechstein, Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo), Roland KC-80
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3038962 10/24/20 02:14 PM
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The white keys are around 4 cm longer AFAIK.

Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
johnstaf #3038969 10/24/20 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
The white keys are around 4 cm longer AFAIK.

Thanks for the correction. I knew the black keys were offset to have a longer pivot length. I didn't think the white keys were. Good to know. I played the PHA-50 keybed multiple times and found I like it a lot.

Hopefully the FP-100 when it comes out will have the PHA-concert keybed in it. That would be a really nice slab piano IMO.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3038971 10/24/20 02:48 PM
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^^

That’s a substantial bit of extra keystick to package - I guess that action won’t make it into a (portable) slab then?

Makes me wonder which direction the FP-90 successor will go/take to keep buyers interested.

Last edited by OscarRamsey; 10/24/20 02:50 PM.

Learning to play. Consciously incompetent, which apparently is a good starting point. smirk
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
johnstaf #3038996 10/24/20 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
The white keys are around 4 cm longer AFAIK.

Is that from their site somewhere? I swear I heard the 50 is 22 cm and the 100 is 24 cm, but I could be imagining that ...


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland DP-603, Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Yamaha MX61, PianoTeq Stage 6 (Bechstein, Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo), Roland KC-80
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3039052 10/24/20 07:35 PM
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Kinda answering my own question ...

[Linked Image]


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland DP-603, Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Yamaha MX61, PianoTeq Stage 6 (Bechstein, Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo), Roland KC-80
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3039072 10/24/20 10:52 PM
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To the original poster, Sean:

You may enjoy this video of the first movement of Mozart's Piano Sonata No. 6, K.284, that you mentioned playing years ago. Here it is played by a college student on an inexpensive Yamaha P-115:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR-hGy3XIpA

The moral of the video? Set your budget, whether it is in the Kawai ES110 - Roland FP30 - Yamaha P-125 range or the much higher Kawai ES920 - Roland FP90 - Yamaha P-515 range, and stick to it. I think that you would appreciate the better touch of the pianos in the higher range, but that is just my opinion -- from someone not on a student's budget like you.

You can always pay more, many thousands more, and buy a better piano, but the important thing right now is to get back to playing after 15 years away, on a decent instrument. I returned to the piano after 40 years away, far too long, but have progressed well playing every day in retirement.

Remember to take good headphones with you when you test play the alternatives, if that's what you will be using in your apartment. Digital pianos sound completely different on headphones vs. their often inadequate speakers. Good luck!

Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3039073 10/24/20 10:54 PM
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I finally got to try an ES8, I was definitely disappointed with the action. Honestly , felt more keyboardish and soft.

So far i do not regret my prurchase of an fp30 as a first piano. The stiffer action is great for me and gives me lots of feedback.

In the end I went from being able to play 0 songs to now 4 and counting on 2 weeks with this piano.

Frankly when One is finallly at a 10 song set i really don’t think any of these frivolous ‘my action is better than yours’ comments will matter ...

Just what you play when the time comes to play it.

Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
Lotus1 #3039077 10/24/20 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lotus1
To the original poster, Sean:

You can always pay more, many thousands more, and buy a better piano, but the important thing right now is to get back to playing after 15 years away, on a decent instrument. I returned to the piano after 40 years away, far too long, but have progressed well playing every day in retirement.

Remember to take good headphones with you when you test play the alternatives, if that's what you will be using in your apartment. Digital pianos sound completely different on headphones vs. their often inadequate speakers. Good luck!

+1.

More practice, less "what to buy?" analysis.<G>

I remember one member, here, who was waiting to buy a DP for (I think) two years. There was always something new and better just coming out . . .


. Charles
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PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3039125 10/25/20 05:30 AM
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Interesting. I have not followed the whole topic, but the three latest posts are way (WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY) more sensible (and sensitive as well, for that matter) than those I just read in another topic.

Our dear friends advice in another topic to the poster with low budget was something in the line "don't waste your time/money with lower cost controllers, wait until you can afford a two or three times as expensive controller". The advices are well meaning, problem is they may be misdirecting. I guess when the person waits (and does not play in the mean while) and gets the budget, then the advice will be "wait until you can afford a hybrid" and so forth. We perfectionists lose touch with reality sometimes. wink



Kudos to Lotus, jpindustre and Charles.

Last edited by EVC2017; 10/25/20 05:31 AM.

Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3039134 10/25/20 06:32 AM
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I don't agree at all. There's nothing wrong with waiting for the right piano.
And, while waiting for perfection may be akin to waiting for Godot, there's nothing requiring anyone to do so.
Indeed, a person hurrying to buy low-end gear seems to be feeling the urge to buy, rather than to wait.
So advising patience is prudent.

Hurrying to buy junk is a recipe for sorrow. Money wasted. Been there, done that.

Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3039136 10/25/20 06:46 AM
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Mac, what is junk for one is treasure to others. smile I rest my case.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
whyarenamestaken #3039138 10/25/20 07:09 AM
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You call that a case? smile

Re: Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!
MacMacMac #3039158 10/25/20 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You call that a case? smile
It’s the Law & Order version.. smile

Since I been on both sides, I agree with both sides. At one point I just needed to get something to start playing. I read reviews and kept waiting and a year went by.

So I decided to find a teacher and go with their advice. She said if I could afford 88 keys best to get something weighted and try everything in my price range. She added that if I can tell the difference then get the one that feels best, and try one in a higher price range. If I couldn’t tell the difference between actions, then get the features and sound I like.

And as was suggested on page 1 of this thread, I think OP has enough info and just needs to test sit a few. I believe most places allow 30days to return. If Sean gets a cheaper one I would guess within 30days they would know if they needed to upgrade. When I bought mine, Guitar Center and Sam Ash said I could upgrade even past 30days and put the money spent toward a new one, as long as I did a trade-in at the same store.

Maybe that’s the kicker, test sit a few then find a place that gives you the longest return factor, either way.

Now’s the fun part, going and playing at a store. I think the OP did say one place took appointments.

Last edited by Silverati 7; 10/25/20 08:12 AM.
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