Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Considering buying Roland FP-90. Questions!

A little background: I'm moving to a new apartment in mid-November and trying to buy a digital piano. I don't care about not having fancy effects and features, and I just want a digital piano that feels close to an acoustic piano (key action). The main reason why I'm considering a digital piano over a used acoustic is that I live in a small apartment in a big city and don't want to bother neighbors. I quit playing the piano when I was 11, and I had started practicing Mozart's Sonatas, so I'd say I'm an intermediate player.

1. I know that FP-30's key action isn't great, but FP-90 is almost 3 times more expensive than FP-30. Is the key action between the two THAT different (esp for an intermediate, not an advanced, player like myself)? Obviously, I will have to go to a piano shop and check it myself, but I thought I'd ask here first. I'm a student, so if I can save extra bucks, that would be great, but I'm willing to spend x3 on FP-90 if it's worth it.

2. Another digital piano I'm looking at is Roland DP-603. It seems like with a pedalboard and a stand (not an X one but a desk one), the cost between the two is around $200. I prefer FP-90 by a small margin, but what concerns me is stability. X stands are obviously shaky, but I wonder how these desk-looking ones are. Has anyone used it? Is it as stable as a console piano, or does it shake when you are playing fortissimo, for example?

3. I'm also thinking of ordering a used one and ship it to my place. Is a digital piano easy to get damaged during shipping? For example, I'd never order a used acoustic piano online and let them ship it to me for an obvious reason. I can't see how a digital piano can go wrong since it doesn't use strings and isn't as fragile, but I just want to double-check there isn't a hidden, fragile feature in a digital piano. If I buy a used one, it's going to be FP-90.

4. It seems like Amazon and other places have a discount for digital pianos, but my impression is they're usually low-end models or really cheap ones from China. Has anyone bought a mid-range piano like FP-90 during a thanksgiving sale? Is it worth waiting until Black Friday?

I know I have too many questions, but I hope this doesn't bother people. Thank you in advance!

Sean

Are you going to play with or without headphones? Without headphones, the FP-90 and DP-603 will both sound a bit different due to their different speaker configuration. Best to try before you buy in my opinion. FP-90’s speaker setup certainly could be better (but that is the case with many portable models). Not heard the DP-603 so I can’t say.

The DP-603 is over 45kg as is...

...if you purchased a furniture stand AND triple pedal unit for the FP-90, the total weight would be over 37kg... but much less if you use an X stand (and all of the weight will be on top!).

Whether that weight difference (with both pianos are on their wooden furniture stands) makes a difference with regards to stability, I don’t know... but home/console pianos tend to be stable - more stable than heavy portable pianos mounted on X stands (based on my experience anyway).

Oh, and an advantage of the DP-603 is that it has a keyboard cover built-in, which folds out of the way rather conveniently. 😀 The keyboard cover I had for my FP-90 proved to be usable... but nowhere near as nice as an integrated cover.

PS RE the action on FP-30: I personally found I didn’t get on with it after one year of playing (getting up to grade 1). Others like it. So again, try before you buy!

PPS Also have a look at the Yamaha and Kawai offerings.

1) I don't have a FP-90, but I have the FP-30 and the DP-603 (which has the same action as the FP-90). You say you "know" that the FP-30 action "isn't great." Do you? I like it quite a bit. It's on the heavy side, but that's not a bad thing. When I practice it more often, I never have any trouble with the weight of any other keyboard, except maybe a Clavinova ... I think it's a really nice action, but I do prefer the PHA-50 in the DP-603 (and FP-90). As you say, you should give them both a shot, but I certainly wouldn't dissuade you from the FP-30 / PHA-4 action.

2) The DP-603 is solid as heck. Really. It's well built, and in no way shakes or shimmies, no matter how hard I mash the keys.

3) I've bought all my DPs online, never had any problem with shipping, but there are no guarantees. I mean, unless the place you buy it from guarantees it. Find a place with a good return policy for items damaged in shipping, and you'll have nothing to worry about.

4) If Amazon has the DP you want, and it's cheaper than elsewhere, I don't see any reason not to buy it from them.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for the response! I am going to play with headphones since that's why I'm buying a digital piano. And I'm also looking into Kawai CA49 and Kawai ES8. Do you know how their actions compare?

You're welcome.

I don't have any experience with the Kawai first hand, sorry. I certainly hear good things about their actions overall, maybe a bit lighter than the Roland? I'm sure other folks here have more to say.

"Table stands" and "Z-stands" are both more stable than X-stands. I don't know about Amazon, but you can order them from Thomann (international) and Sweetwater.com or GuitarCenter.com in the US.

If a DP is going to go out gigging, an X-stand is a reasonable compromise for the sake of portability. If the DP is going to stay in its place, or be moved from room to room, IMHO the extra cost and weight of a table stand or Z-stand is worthwhile:

. . . The FP90 is not a lightweight DP.

My Casio PX-350 (probably comparable to an FP30) weighs about 27 pounds. The FP90 weighs 52 pounds.

I've test-played both the FP30 and FP90. IMHO, the PHA-50 action in the FP90 (and other Rolands) is substantially better (= "closer to an acoustic piano") than the PHA4-Standard action in the FP30.

Haha, right. I meant that an FP-90 has more technologically advanced actions, so it was a comparative thing. Also, I heard some people do prefer the FP-30 action to the FP-50 action, so it does seem all relative. In what way do you prefer the DP-603 action? Do you mind elaborating on it? Does it feel more acoustic? I'll definitely try them out in person before I buy them. Thank you for your answer!

No worries! I know I asked too many questions. I found your comments helpful already!


That's great to know! I'm not really worried about the weight of FP-90 because I'm planning to leave it in my apartment for the next five to six years. The only reason I'm considering FP-90 over DP-603 is that it's still $200-ish cheaper. If the table stand is as stable as (or at least comparable to) a console piano, then I'd definitely go for FP-90 to save extra bucks.

if you’re playing with headphones, and it’s only going to stay at home (i.e. not gigs), and you end up liking the fp30 action, you might want to consider the fp10 with exactly the same keys and action and sound engine, and access to the same number of sounds through the app

I certainly wouldn't compare it to a high-end grand piano, but I'd say it's in the ballpark of the mid-priced acoustic uprights in the practice rooms in the music department at the college where I work. The keys are reasonably long under the hood, allowing them to move in a way that approximates the action of an upright. I also like that the key surfaces feel like most of the acoustics I've played on. The FP-30 / PHA-4 action, like a lot of DPs these days, has a "no-slip" texture, which sounds great, but is a bit more than I'd prefer, to the point where I feel like it slows me down a little. The PHA-50 action in the DP-603 isn't slick by any means, it's just not overly textured, so I feel like my fingers move on and off them more fluidly. In general, I feel the PHA-50 is close enough to any acoustic piano I'm likely to play on any time soon, so I'm quite happy with it as a practice instrument.

Hope that helps!

Will consider that. I've heard good things about FP-10 as a low-priced DP for beginners. Thank you!


It does! It's good to hear that your experience matches my impression of PHA-50. I can't afford anything fancy now, but I wanted a decent mid-priced DP, and PHA-50 seemed to provide that. Thanks a lot for the comment!

Welcome, whyarenamestaken!

Fortunately, you are looking at the price point that offers the best value in digital pianos. In addition to the Roland FP90, you may want to try the Kawai ES920 and Yamaha P-515 -- all three being higher-end slab pianos that can be outfitted with good-looking and stable stands, three pedals, etc.

I bought my Yamaha DGX-660 -- a lower-end slab piano -- on Black Friday 2017 for 20% off its normal price, plus a $75 rebate and some goodies from Yamaha. That was an exceptionally good deal, but 15%-off coupons are often available at Guitar Center and other chain retailers. The fine print usually says that it cannot be used on anything you really want, but some retailers are happy to ignore that and make a deal.

For what it's worth, I preferred Roland's PHA50 action (FP90) to Yamaha's NWX action (P-515), and didn't get to try the Kawai ES8 (now replaced by the ES920). But in the end decided on an acoustic grand to complement my digital piano, instead of upgrading to a higher-end digital.

If you played Mozart's piano sonatas at one time and aim to get back to that (Grade 8, at least?), I think that you are at a far higher level than most members of this forum. So trust your own judgment as to what feels right when you test the options. I would not recommend buying a used piano that you have not played first. Good luck!

Lotus
__________________________________________
Polishing up: Mozart -- Adagio in B minor, K. 540
Pianos: Kawai GM-10 grand, Yamaha DGX-660 digital

I have FP-90 and an older higher-end Roland piano with a PHA-3 action, which is a tad better than PHA-4 Standard action in Roland FP-30, and the same sound engine as FP-30, at least on paper.

I would choose FP-90 over FP-30 every time, it is worth its price.
FP-90 with its sound modeling technology is much more playable than SuperNatural engine without modeling, it has better dynamics, sustain, and better action than FP-30. Even playing Fur Elize and similar intermediate pieces, you will have much better dynamics and can play it more expressively on FP-90.
I can make my old sampled Roland sound very nice, but the way I play it to sound that nice will be quite different from an acoustic piano, and overall it is less responsive, 'dumber' when I play it than FP-90.
But some people do not like timbres of the modeled sound, for me they are pretty much similar, as both use the same (or similar) Steinway samples.
Try them both in person, find the easiest piece which has dynamics, may be some easy slow piece which needs to be played with passion, anything you can play, and compare.

This is super helpful. Thanks a lot. I saw that prices at popular chain retailers are lower than MSRP. By 15% off, do you mean discounts like this? I didn't know about Kawai ES920, and I should definitely look into it. That said, both Kawai ES920 and Yamaha P515 are cheaper than Roland FP90. You said you preferred FP90 to P-515, but did you think FP90 was worth putting extra? And thank you for the encouragement! I quit playing the piano while practicing the first movements of Mozart's Sonata No. 6 and 16 for a small competition more than 15 years ago. But I've played other instruments for the time being, so hopefully I still have ears that are musical enough to judge which one is good for me.


Sounds good. Thank you for your input. I'm definitely leaning toward FP90 even though that means spending more money. I think it's worth it especially since what I care about the most is a key action.

I think you've had enough input and should go try them asap and plan enough time for this. Your personal impressions are quite likely to be different to what you read here, because key action and sound are very subjective.

I thought I'd buy an entry slab, but I wasn't happy with the touch and sound of any, the ES110 and the FP30 seemed best among them to me. Aside for the price, the schlepp factor is their advantage (recently the ES920 is close at 16kg).

I like FP90 keys quite a lot, but I'd say the speakers are not "close to perfection", and the sound engine get quite mixed opinions. Mind it depend a lot on which headphones you use. I liked the ES8 sound more, the keys not as much; but the RHIII in the CN39 seemed fine. Furnitures tend to have better speakers than slabs, and the higher model speakers are again quite audibly better. I wasn't aware of the differences between Kawai sound engines and didn't spot them when trying, you might with quality headphones (pay attention to attack sample length before loop).
I didn't like Yamaha keys in lower ranges because they tend to be stiff at the top, though this might be subjective due the AU that I'm used to. Though, N1X an U1 keys feel very nice to me.
If I was after a furniture, I'd choose between the CN39 and the CA58 (some months ago); but if I was replacing my AU, I'd probably go for a used "silent" U1.

Hi Sean,

These are my opinions only, others may disagree or prefer to be more circumspect. Hope you don't mind me being bluntish.

1) The FP30 key action is for beginners. If you are at the intermediate stage of piano ability, time to move on. Things cost what they are worth to the market. If you can't afford, you need to try the used market if you wish to upgrade.

2) Your problem is that you're casting your net too narrowly. I can't make you change attitude, but I encourage you to try Yamaha, Kawai, Korg, Nord, Kurzweil, Dexibel etc., if they are available in store. Rather than start from a position of psychological idea of what you want, backed up by YouTube videos, it's far better to go into the store with a blank slate, and then form an experiential view. Then afterwards, go home and read about them, form a shortlist, and if necessary, test just a few models, spending time to properly distinguish the pros and cons.

Kawai ES8/ES920
Yamaha P515
Kawai VPC1
Kawai MP7SE/MP11SE
Roland RD2000
Roland Fantom 88.
Roland HP Range
Roland DP range
Korg SV2
Korg Grandstage
Dexibel vivo S7 pro, S9 pro.
Yamaha CLP745 and other CLP range models
Kawai CA49/CA59 and other CA series/ CS series models
Roland LX7 / LX17
Roland LX706/708
Nord Grand

Yamaha Avant Grand
Kawai Novus NV10 NV5

An acoustic grand piano or two for reference.

Try as many as you can, develop yourself a physical perspective, then tell us what you like and are considering, after having played all of them and gained some sort of comparative basis.

3) Shipping can be a lottery: both from the manufacturer to the distributor, and from a person's home to your home. You can't be sure damage won't happen because of individuals working for delivery companies behaving poorly. When I send things, I wrap them using OTT methods in an attempt to protect the unit from being thrown into a van etc. That's what often happens. However, don't think it's less likely when things are being shipped from an Indonesian factory to a distribution hub in the UK, then to the store's warehouse.

4) No, I don't buy new usually because just like motor cars, the depreciation is silly money.

Kind regards,

Doug.

I own a Roland FP-90, that was my first DP and when I bought it Yamaha P-515 wasn't there yet, but I tried Roland FP-30, FP-80, Kawai ES8 among others. What can I say: the PHA-50 action for me is the lowest of what I perceive as playable. It's not a fantastic action and it's far from being close in feel to the real acoustic action, but it's a decent shot at imitation nevertheless. I'd been playing on it for two years before I realized the limitations I can't adapt to and bought Kawai CA99. ES8, FP-30 and FP-80 actions felt significantly worse to me. If FP-90's action feels great for you, than perhaps you would find ES8's or even FP-30's action also decent at least. And then it's a question whether you should pay more for the FP-90. But to me FP-90's action didn't feel great from the start, it was just manageable. Even regarding CA99's GFIII action which is significantly better (and more expensive of course) — I feel there is still much to improve. So while I do consider both FP-90 and FP-30 a good value for their respective prices, I consider only the FP-90 to be the instrument you can play on in the middle run.

Regarding the sound, FP-90 sounds decent for a slab. ES8 sounded a bit better to me, but on the level of preference one piano voice over the other. However when compared directly to the top cabinet like CA99, FP-90 sounds like a ghost, like there is only a schema of the piano sound without the "body". You can't expect too much from a slab obviously. The sound in headphones is OK, but Pianoteq sounds better by a landslide despite both being modeled.

Forgot to mention:

The FP90 and RD2000 from Roland both have pretty cheap internal headphone amps which detract from the modelled piano sound---really do those instruments no favours, especially in comparison with other models such as the CLP7XX series.

IMO, it's a good idea to ask the store if you may test an external headphone am---maybe test with the Sennheiser HD600 or HD650 or HD800 headphones (all have 300 ohm impedance, so would need an external headphone amp anyway)---would allow you to hear the modeled piano sound in all it's glory (or at least at it's best).

I must try the GFIII when my dealer reopens to casual browsers (i.e. those without an appointment). I prefer the PHA-50 action to the GFII so it will be interesting to try the GFIII. I also want to try Roland's newest action. I don't know if it will be available in an FP90 successor, or if such a piano is likely to appear any time soon.

In my hands, I felt the newest Roland action on the LX708 was a very mild improvement on the PHA50, nothing more than a subtle evolution. If one is used to proper acoustic actions, I think a hybrid is the way to go.

So much great information! I agree that it's time to check these pianos out in person at a store. But I'm pretty sure all this info will help me make a good decision.

Thank you, all!

Sean