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Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3004671 07/20/20 08:52 AM
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It’s only the NV10 that doesn’t support note off velocity. All other Kawai digital pianos support it because the hammer stays at the last sensor (or more precisely: all dome switches are activated) as long as the key is being held down, hence a reverse duration calculation can be started on key release by measuring the duration between switch deactivations. NV10 (and the Cybrid for reasons of using the same principle with hammer being caught by the backchecks away from the last two sensor measurement points) suffers from the side effect of not being capable of measuring release velocity.

Last edited by CyberGene; 07/20/20 08:57 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3004674 07/20/20 08:57 AM
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CG did you notice a difference of control between N1X and Cybrid for the smooth release feature? Does it make a noticeable difference for pianists?


Piano: Yamaha N3X
VST(preference in order): VSL Synchron Pianos, Vienna Imperial, Garritan CFX, VI Labs Modern U, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq
Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
Harpuia #3004675 07/20/20 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
CG did you notice a difference of control between N1X and Cybrid for the smooth release feature? Does it make a noticeable difference for pianists?
I think there’s some slight difference when playing staccato with N1X having shorter tails. I think Garritan CFX doesn’t support release velocity itself anyway. But the rich ambience makes the release not very noticeable, so I’m not sure if it’s an important feature.

Last edited by CyberGene; 07/20/20 09:11 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3004766 07/20/20 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
It’s only the NV10 that doesn’t support note off velocity. All other Kawai digital pianos support it because the hammer stays at the last sensor (or more precisely: all dome switches are activated) as long as the key is being held down, hence a reverse duration calculation can be started on key release by measuring the duration between switch deactivations. NV10 (and the Cybrid for reasons of using the same principle with hammer being caught by the backchecks away from the last two sensor measurement points) suffers from the side effect of not being capable of measuring release velocity.

I think it would be NV-10, NV-5, the Aures and any other ATX type Kawai that mates digital sensing to an existing acoustic action, since they all use the same optical hammer sensing technology.

The funny thing is, the NV-10's sound engine, which is identical to the CA-78/98s' (which do support note-off) fully supports note-off. If you trigger a note via MIDI, the NV-10 will play back the note-off correctly.

After testing it, I find I don't miss note-off velocity at all. It seems to just change the volume of the note release, and also adjust the volume of the hammer-release noise if you have that enabled. I also haven't met anyone who has noticed or missed the inclusion of note-off on the NV. Now that said, the AG may have a more complex implementation than what I've seen with Kawai, particularly with the "smooth release" feature.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3007269 07/27/20 08:39 AM
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I soldered the pins of the Teensy 4.1 and replaced the Teensy 3.6 with it: you can just swap them because the Teensy board with the pins is inserted into sockets. I only had to change the half-pedal input target in the code because on 3.6 the same pin was A21 and it's now A16. The new Teensy is clocked by default at 600 MHz (and can be overclocked to over 800 MHz without cooling and above 1GHz with cooling), compared to 3.6 which I overclocked to 256 MHz. This necessitated to extend a bit a few NOOP operations (actually added a few more redundant digital reads) to allow for the pull-up resistors to bring up the voltage. The piano works brilliantly. It's hard to say whether it's better than before because it was already great but I measured it with a logic analyzer and the entire keyboard is now scanned in 8.9 microseconds, which is half what was before: 19.5 microseconds. This is a fantastic improvement because even though it may not be easily perceptible, it would significantly improve the accuracy of the velocity detection, that was around ±0.9 MIDI velocity points at high velocities but it is now lower, I need to calculate it to know exactly how much that improves but it certainly puts it in the lower than ±0.5 MIDI velocity points range which means the velocities are now always spot on. Teensy 4.1 costs $25 smile

Last edited by CyberGene; 07/27/20 08:41 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3007276 07/27/20 09:06 AM
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Just keeps getting better. That is such a jump in processing speed at a silly low price.

Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3007286 07/27/20 09:43 AM
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Have you opened up cybergene.com so that I can place my order? smile

Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
MacMacMac #3007424 07/27/20 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Have you opened up cybergene.com so that I can place my order? smile

Seriously!! To which I have to say: "+1"!!


Previous owner of a Yahama P-120 - now has new life with a student
New owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
kimby #3007441 07/27/20 04:48 PM
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The only needed marketing would be a YT video comparing the same piece on N1X, garritan on N1X, garritan on Cybrid... And open a shop (or license it to your technician... 😊)

Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3038198 10/22/20 04:41 AM
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Are Cybrid optical sensors being affected by direct sunlight? You bet your a**! 🤣



My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3038209 10/22/20 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Are Cybrid optical sensors being affected by direct sunlight?

Nice performance, ROTFL. Send it to some competition smile

Also, we should discuss the heck out of you because you put the piano next to that radiator, you naughty boy laugh wink

Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3038234 10/22/20 08:35 AM
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This radiator stays off all the time which wasn't an easy thing to convince my wife since it's also our bedroom 🤣 BTW, I missed the sweet spot for the sunlight generated music because 5 minutes earlier it was almost across the entire keyboard with some pretty weird effects but until I found my phone to shoot it and enable Garritan recording (it's a headless setup, so I open a VNC session to that computer for stuff like that...) it was almost gone. Apparently the infrared components in the sunlight will screw with the sensors seriously but not as much as it may seem. Once not having direct sunlight it would be very stable. Artificial light won't affect it at all. I think Yamaha had some problems with NU1 instruments and direct light hitting between the keys and may have fixed it somehow for NU1X. The fact mine is bare open and it's the first time I even realize external light is messing with it means my solution might be sturdier than Yamaha's one 😛

Last edited by CyberGene; 10/22/20 08:36 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3038259 10/22/20 10:00 AM
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Interesting. I would keep this covered as light will deteriorate some parts faster than others.

Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3038311 10/22/20 12:47 PM
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Thinking about this project with wng action or getting a n3x haven’t decided any ideas guys?


Sanchez
Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3038317 10/22/20 01:02 PM
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Where can you get the wng action? What does that cost?

Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CoogerTown #3038321 10/22/20 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CoogerTown
Thinking about this project with wng action or getting a n3x haven’t decided any ideas guys?


WNG action built from scratch will be lots of work for you and/or your tuner, plus cabinet, computer, virtual instrument, etc. Overall cost would not be much cheaper than N3X, and time (investment or waited) will be long -- but potentially will be exactly what you want.

N3X, you shell the money and get it home "tomorrow". You have less options regarding making it like you exactly you want, but still have some.

In-between option: used N1 with computer and virtual instrument. Lots of money saved that you could use to pay a technician to adjust the action to your liking.

Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
newer player #3038335 10/22/20 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Where can you get the wng action? What does that cost?

From the manufacturer, obviously.... Or from a qualified technician which you will need anyway because it's not just a matter of slapping some parts together....

You can buy either a pre-assembled stack:
https://technicians.wessellnickelan...r-action/grand-assembled-top-action.html

or individual parts for your assembly enjoyment: https://technicians.wessellnickelandgross.com/action-parts

Either way, I've been quoted starting 5k$ assembled and with basic adjusting. More (up to double that amount) if you want also the keys and/or the back action (dampers). This is for a grand piano. Perhaps you could negotiate down with your technician since the very important right-left adjustment of the hammers (fundamental for the una-corda pedal) is almost irrelevant for a digital, and ditto for the (very expensive) adjustment of the back action, should you decide to want that.

Then there will be the cabinet.

FWIW, the price for a different vendor of action (WNG) parts is not much different. Makes that N1x sound inexpensive, does it?

Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3038337 10/22/20 02:12 PM
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Wng action is 5000 not counting the optical parts and labor. I am thinking cost would be 8000 to 9000. Makes Yamaha and kawai look like a bargain?


Sanchez
Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3038353 10/22/20 02:39 PM
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The electronic parts in my project cost $200-300 in total but I should say this project has its quirks and I would strongly recommend against trying it on an expensive WNG action without you knowing exactly what you do and what you can expect. I really don’t want to be held responsible for any problems or deficiencies you may encounter 😀 I haven’t even described the procedure I devised for regulating the trimpots for a consistent velocity measurement across the keys and without you understanding the principles and the software it would be far from trivial to just guess it and can lead to frustration.

Please, anyone attempting it, let me first know your idea and your prior knowledge. I want to stress this project in its current state might not be an end-user ready project. I expected contributions from other people but there aren’t. Without further refinements and polishing it remains a geeky endeavor for experienced DIY-ers only.

Last edited by CyberGene; 10/22/20 02:40 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Cybrid (CyberGene's hybrid MIDI controller) is open-source!
CyberGene #3038377 10/22/20 03:46 PM
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Damn you Yamaha why do you have to make things so cheap


Sanchez
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