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"Okay"/beginner piece (important update)
#3037122 10/18/20 06:33 PM
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Thanks to keystring for pointing out a major problem with the piece I posted in the other thread. Due to the enormity of the mistake I thought making a new thread was in order, since people are still learning here and shouldn't be unduly burdened, particularly on a piece intended to assist in learning.

There was conflict between the pedal markings and rests, which, being new to notating piano music, I didn't realize. It will still technically sound correct if you play it as it was written, but so long as the sustain pedal is in use there can't be any rests. If that doesn't make sense to you don't worry about it, but you should still download the new score with the problem fixed and learn the piece with the proper notations.

For those who might be interested in playing it, it was intended to be a beginner's piece but the consensus seems to be that it's likely to give most beginners a fair amount of trouble, so play at your own risk.

Here is the new video on youtube: https://youtu.be/OOHn8FCvezY

mp3 is here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/zz00w4259lcmzoh/Okay.mp3/file

Fixed score is here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/vz8jjtekdv5iv6l/OkayScoreFinal.pdf/file

If you want the YT video on your computer, it's here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/edmqiswaqg18z0c/OkayFinal.mp4/file

And as an aside, if anyone is interested, I'll be uploading a new and slightly easier piece tomorrow.

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Re: "Okay"/beginner piece (important update)
MilesAbbott #3037182 10/18/20 10:13 PM
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I'm thinking it might actually be good to have both scores, because the other one shows what the hand actually do, and how early they can move away from the notes when the pedal holds it. It's an interesting and sort of weird phenomenon with piano.

Re: "Okay"/beginner piece (important update)
MilesAbbott #3037323 10/19/20 10:10 AM
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I'm about 8 months in and so far entirely self taught via Piano Marvel and the Faber Accelerated Piano Adventures Book 1. I'm not prodigy for sure and as an older beginner, I've struggle mightily with both finger dexterity and independence. From those perspectives, this would make my head explode. I think it sounds lovely and I would like to aspire to it, but I would guess this is 3-6 months away. Maybe less if I start making faster gains.

Re: "Okay"/beginner piece (important update)
Javaslinger #3037375 10/19/20 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by keystring
I'm thinking it might actually be good to have both scores, because the other one shows what the hand actually do, and how early they can move away from the notes when the pedal holds it. It's an interesting and sort of weird phenomenon with piano.

That's an interesting thought. Unfortunately it seems not nearly as many people are downloading the new score as the old one, so it seems some will be working with it anyway. I guess it may not be as big a deal as I'm thinking it is. So long as it gets across how to play the piece, then I suppose it's okay. It would bother me personally, though.

Originally Posted by Javaslinger
I'm about 8 months in and so far entirely self taught via Piano Marvel and the Faber Accelerated Piano Adventures Book 1. I'm not prodigy for sure and as an older beginner, I've struggle mightily with both finger dexterity and independence. From those perspectives, this would make my head explode. I think it sounds lovely and I would like to aspire to it, but I would guess this is 3-6 months away. Maybe less if I start making faster gains.

I'm not sure my assessment on who can play this is to be trusted or taken as a proper perspective. I played guitar for many years before I started playing the piano, and got fairly involved in fingerpicking, which gave me dexterity/independence in both hands. I played the trumpet from 6th grade through high school, as well, so that gave me a bit of an edge in reading music. I'm sure I progressed faster than most with no musical background (or just less of one) would have.

That said, I didn't find picking up the piano to be easy, and I was/am often immensely frustrated. The only advice I could give someone having your troubles is to play more scales. I went very heavy on scales from the get-go because I enjoyed the immediate results of practicing them. I think that might help more than many people think with dexterity/independence.

I will say in closing, though, that sometimes driving yourself to the point of your head exploding is a good thing to do. As they say, no pain no gain.

Re: "Okay"/beginner piece (important update)
MilesAbbott #3037381 10/19/20 12:27 PM
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I will add one more thing...and as I said, my opinion may not be valid considering my background, but I truly believe that this piece looks more difficult than it is. I don't think there is a single part of it that is impossibly more difficult than another part. There are difficult parts, but keep in mind that I designed them to be easier than they look. (Also, if you can't count the triplet parts, they are simple enough to play by ear. If it's possible to do such things with synthesia, for instance, then you can do it with sheet music and an mp3.)

One person did say that they thought it looked very tough until they actually tried it, then they realized it was easy. "Easy" might be a stretch, especially for some people, but you get the point.

Re: "Okay"/beginner piece (important update)
MilesAbbott #3037385 10/19/20 12:38 PM
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I don't think this is first time I've seen music written with rests, and yet the pedal is down, rendering the rests useless really. Perhaps play the piece without pedal first, and see where you would like to add it. There are some measures where it's all steps, and I wouldn't use pedal there. Or at least I was taught not to. But it's something to experiment with, and see what sounds best. On our acoustic upright, holding down the pedal for two measures as indicated in the beginning sounds a little muddy.

Now the new version barely has any rests in it. I think a good beginner piece would have that so students can count and know when not to play.

Keep the first version, and take the pedal markings out. I like the rests, it gives you an opportunity to breathe.


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Re: "Okay"/beginner piece (important update)
bSharp(C)yclist #3037674 10/20/20 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
I don't think this is first time I've seen music written with rests, and yet the pedal is down, rendering the rests useless really. Perhaps play the piece without pedal first, and see where you would like to add it. There are some measures where it's all steps, and I wouldn't use pedal there. Or at least I was taught not to. But it's something to experiment with, and see what sounds best. On our acoustic upright, holding down the pedal for two measures as indicated in the beginning sounds a little muddy.

Now the new version barely has any rests in it. I think a good beginner piece would have that so students can count and know when not to play.

Keep the first version, and take the pedal markings out. I like the rests, it gives you an opportunity to breathe.

Interesting. I've seen only a couple snippets of music where the pedal is depressed with rests. One was actually a Chopin piece, which made me wonder, but no one in the thread discussing the issue seemed to know if it was a mistake or something to help with counting. I've been unable to find any "official" answer on this.

Seems to me it may be a subjective thing, but that the best or most common practice is to write it without the rests. Might be flat-out wrong though in the academic sense. Technically speaking, I don't think it should matter how long one holds down a key if the pedal is depressed, so quarter notes could actually be played as eighth notes and don't necessarily reflect exactly what the pianist is doing with his hands, particularly if a lot of real estate must be covered in between notes.

Thanks for the feedback on the pedaling as well. I play on a Yamaha Montage, mostly using the CFX Concert (grand piano) patch on it. Sustain is different on everything, so some may prefer to pedal on every measure or really as frequently as they wish to prevent muddiness. My only problem with that in the beginner's sense is you need to compensate for that by tying notes and holding them down longer than you would as indicated on the score with the pedal depressed. Gets a bit confusing.

Re: "Okay"/beginner piece (important update)
MilesAbbott #3037694 10/20/20 09:05 AM
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Pedaling is different on everything I think. On my hybrid, it doesn't seem to get as muddy as the upright. Bouncing back and forth between the two is challenging. Both the sound, how the pedal feels against the foot, the range of the pedal, etc., is different. Next week we get our new acoustic and I'll have readjust all over again.

Last edited by bSharp(C)yclist; 10/20/20 09:06 AM.

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Re: "Okay"/beginner piece (important update)
MilesAbbott #3037710 10/20/20 10:38 AM
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There are pieces where there is no indication of pedaling, typically Debussy, even though it is expected to use it. I have come across bars where rests are indicated and yet many pianists do leave the pedal on. It is not clear if Debussy expected not to use the pedal at that place or if it is just a writing convention or habit or simply an oversight.

Since the use of the pedal is really a matter of appreciation, if you decide to indicate the pedal, in my view you should put the rest in sync with the pedal, even if the pedal indication is only a suggestion. If you let the player free to decide where to use it and not put any indication, it is more complex to decide. In addition since this an exercice piece, you can assume some people will initially play it without any pedal.


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