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Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
#3036861 10/18/20 02:45 AM
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Hi,

Just recently started recording myself practicing (streaming) and noticed that every second video is getting a copyright claim. Not an audio recording, it happened previously sometimes as a mistake, but actually the copyright claims for, say, Bach WTK or Chopin, etc., I mean for the compositions. In all cases I started a dispute, but still not 100% clear how it will be resolved. According to the international copyright laws all pre- 19 century composers music and early 20 century is in a public domain. Basically the rule is a composer death date + 70 years means the compositions are in public domain for EU, Russia and Canada. For US the rule is that everything published before 1925 is in public domain. IMSLP.org is a great source for such kind of information plus a great source for a public domain sheet music. BTW since I started practicing video recording myself you may check my ramblings around this topic: https://youtu.be/Zi_zt6J5M8E Sorry for the quality of the video, I'm learning to speak English (not my native, obviously), record, slightly edit, etc., so taking this opportunity to practice.

So, just some information for you to know, to consider, how it works, maybe you'll find yourself in a similar situation one day, so you should know the rules. Im case maybe I don't get something right will be happy to be corrected.

Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3036864 10/18/20 03:00 AM
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Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3036870 10/18/20 03:55 AM
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Last year I recorded the Handel Sarabande in Dm HWV 437 for a PW Recital. The piece was composed in the 1730s. Submitting the piece to PW wasn't an issue. When I uploaded the exact same piece on YouTube, I got a copyright notice. There was a link to somebody's soundtrack that sounded like the Handel piece and I did hear the similarity. The soundtrack posted online was no earlier than 1990 so it's a modern piece. I submitted a reply to YouTube why the piece should not be considered a copyright violation and they took the claim off.

The piece "Aria" from the Bach Goldberg Variations I posted a while ago on YouTube got a copyright warning. It's a Classical piece that have been played by a number of people including the Canadian pianist Glenn Gould. Does YouTube consider the another performer still alive as the actual composer than the real composer J.S. Bach?

Take a common piece "Minuet in G" Anh. 114 out of the "Notebook for Anna M Bach" that many students would play. It's in 3/4 time. "A Lover's Concerto" is a pop song written by American songwriters Sandy Linzer and Denny Randell, and recorded in 1965. It's in 4/4 time sung in another Key. "Minuet in G" came at least 200 years before "A Lover's Concerto". Does YouTube consider anybody who uploaded their performance of "Minuet in G" a violation of the copyright of the singers who recorded the song "A Lover's Concerto"?

Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3036872 10/18/20 04:05 AM
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Here is how I see it. Previously the algorithm worked to detect the audio recording similarity, it was kind of nice when they tell you that it is, say Rubinstein recording I'm using. Overall I got used to it, it happened several times, just opened a dispute saying no, it is just me playing and recording myself. Now, I guess there is some new technologies got involved, when the algorithm detects the actual "notes", the melody, the composition. All this stuff is AI based. If to think in a nice way about the situation it may be that somebody, say, uploaded his recording of, say, Bach, to some copyright management platform, payed them some fee and they include his recording to their database to be checked around. It possible that the person who uploaded stated that it is his own composition. I guess it is possible to trick the machine. Overall, just guessing around.

Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3036873 10/18/20 04:36 AM
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Andrei
Can’t you remove the copyright claim by replying to YouTube? If yes, the algorithm is irritating but just one of daily life’s small irritants, isn’t it? They will likely adjust the algorithm when there is a large number of false claims they need to remove.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
dogperson #3036874 10/18/20 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Can’t you remove the copyright claim by replying to YouTube? If yes, the algorithm is irritating but just one of daily life’s small irritants, isn’t it? They will likely adjust the algorithm when there is a large number of false claims they need to remove.
Yes, I hope it is exactly how you say. Previously it was very easy for the audio recordings claims. This composition ones are kind of new and compared to previous ones are quite absurd. Yes, I hope it is some temporary inconvenience. I started this thread to let other people know how it is supposed to be dealt with. There is quite significant chance that the claimant may request the video removal, 3 removals = channel deleted. I never was at this stage, but know that there is still a process to appeal the video removal to YouTube, where you need to insist on your rights in a kind of official language and state that you guarantee you are legal all around and ready to prove it in court. In theory YouTube should keep this video then, it is on the claimant side to sue you, no one ever do it in reality. At least how I know it.

Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3036875 10/18/20 04:54 AM
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Why don’t you provide an update on how you proceed with the claim removal and if there were any obstacles. That would be helpful information for others to know.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3036879 10/18/20 05:16 AM
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Will do.

Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3037017 10/18/20 01:42 PM
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I belong to a music group and upload performance videos regularly. I did some of the recordings and got permission from the group to share videos online. Every video on YouTube got a copyright notice and I simply ignore them. Recording myself playing solo isn't the problem. When you have a group of 10+ people, looks like you're recording a professional performance from somewhere even if you're a performer in the group and operating the camera during breaks.

Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3037221 10/19/20 03:44 AM
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I got one of these notices exactly once, when I uploaded "Le coucou" by Daquin. A baroque piece, but which may have been used for videos that are copyrighted.

The pop songs I played and uploaded never earned me a copyright notice.

My guess: The algorithms are not analyzing the musical content, but just if the sound has been used in a video with copyright. And probably lots of well-known classical pieces have been used for various videos.

But I could be wrong.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3037496 10/19/20 05:54 PM
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The rule of thumb is making a living off YouTube.

People post their videos online for different reasons. Somebody like myself who upload videos for sharing but has no expectation of making a living / earning an income would not be too concerned with copyright claims. As long as a video is within reasonable standard with no controversial content.

Many people including young students get into playing Pop songs. The singer / songwriter may be retired but many are still alive and kickin'. Some YouTube channels are popular with many subscribers. I'm sure people get notices for Billy Joel "The Piano Man", Elton John "Your Song", Freddie Mercury "Bohemian Rhapsody" or Yiruma "The River Flows in You". The sheet music is easily accessible in music stores & online. There is nothing against someone playing a song by a living musician in a family gathering or a public piano as long as that person is not collecting an income from the performance.

We assumed that "Classical" pieces were written by composers ages ago and it is true their music is considered "public domain". Pop songs written today or a few decades ago are just as accessible. We can get songbooks like Abba, Elton John, Bee Gees Greatest Hits. I don't think Classical pieces are less likely to get copyright warnings from YT than Pop songs unless the piece you play is by an obscure composer and the song sounds original.

The last piece I uploaded was a folk tune by a singer in the 1970s. Before that I got copyright warnings for the "Aria" from the Bach "Goldberg Variations" and the "Sarabande" from the Handel keyboard suite HWV 437. Based on personal experience I wouldn't say uploading a piece composed in the 18th century is less likely to generate a copyright warning because the last things YT looks for are the name & date of a composer.

Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3037504 10/19/20 06:09 PM
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pp416
You might want to look up copyright laws. ‘Classical’ music is not necessarily in the public domain. Generally life of creator plus 70 years.

For instance, Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue, composer in 1924, entered public domain Jan 1, 2020

I am not a copyright attorney so I do not want to get into a long discussion but wanted to let you know that you cannot make any assumptions about assigning public domain to classical music

Last edited by dogperson; 10/19/20 06:15 PM. Reason: Typo

"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3037517 10/19/20 06:50 PM
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I think everybody should start writing mean, sarcastic, or otherwise socially unacceptable responses to YouTube. Whenever I get one of those claims, I respond with extreme sarcasm.


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Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Andrei Kuznetsov #3038357 10/22/20 02:48 PM
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When Youtube flagged me playing Chopin I considered it a compliment! I uploaded it for my Mom. I'm a terrible pianist, but apparently Youtube thought I was Michelangeli. :-)


Gary
Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
dogperson #3038408 10/22/20 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
They will likely adjust the algorithm when there is a large number of false claims they need to remove.
My guess is no, they will only adjust the algorithm if they're losing money from it.

When there's a false claim that gets disputed and needs to be removed, that's a cost to YouTube.

When there's a false claim that someone doesn't dispute because the scary "legal" text puts them off, then YouTube get to put ads on that video and they make a small profit.

I suspect that the total profit is a lot more than the cost to YouTube.

Re: Classical compositions copyright claims on YouTube
Plowboy #3038490 10/23/20 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Plowboy
When Youtube flagged me playing Chopin I considered it a compliment! I uploaded it for my Mom. I'm a terrible pianist, but apparently Youtube thought I was Michelangeli. :-)
hahaha love this smile


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