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I have been paying on my new CA49 for about three weeks now. I mainly use the SK Concert sample since I enjoy its warmer tone. However, some days ago I noticed the key F#4 makes a louder and brighter sound that the rest of the keyboard. It only happens with that sample (maybe also with one of the studio grands but it is not so clear), and keeps happening when using headphones. I does not happen every time I play the key, mainly when I play staccato or louder. I have been able to reduce this effect by reducing the volume of that key to the minimum possible (-50). I also use a heavy touch which also helps (it happens a lot more when setting the touch to normal).
I assumed it might be a sensor problem, so following previous threads I checked the MIDI output and compared it with neighbor keys. I used MIDIOX for this. Differences were a bit larger when playing F#4 and its neighbors than when playing any other consecutive black keys. However, they did not seem too large to me (+- 7) and I personally found too hard to apply even pressure on both keys simultaneously.
Then I tried to transpose the keyboard and to my surprise the brighter and louder F#4 moves as I transpose it. If I even split the keyboard in two (4 hands mode) I have now the issue in two locations. This tells me it is not a key issue but rather a sampling/software issue. Here two videos for you to see the differences before and after transposing the keyboard two semitones. At start I play soft so the sound is warm in all keys but as I hit harder the sound in F#4 changes and gets brighter.
Does anyone know how this can be solved? I am thinking in contacting the retailer. I have not used Virtual Technician since I do not have an iPad, but I know voicing can also be changed for each single key. Is it also possible for the CA49? If I change the keyboard to "Brilliant" (one of the 10 presets on Smart Mode virtual Technician) the bright F#4 sound blends perfectly with the rest of the keyboard. I prefer warmer sounds though
Thanks in advance for your help. Any ideas/suggestions are welcome. Cheers,
From the videos it looks to me it's a voicing problem. On your DP the F#4 note seems to be brighter (at least from a certain velocity onwards).
I tried on my CN37, same PHI engine but different action, and I don't have that behaviour with the SK-EX patch on the F#4 note or other notes. To get that brighter sample you get, at normal velocity curve I have to press much harder, as it should be.
I don't know if on the CA49 you can alter the voicing of just a single note. On the CN37 I can do it.
From the videos it looks to me it's a voicing problem. On your DP the F#4 note seems to be brighter (at least from a certain velocity onwards).
I tried on my CN37, same PHI engine but different action, and I don't have that behaviour with the SK-EX patch on the F#4 note or other notes. To get that brighter sample you get, at normal velocity curve I have to press much harder, as it should be.
I don't know if on the CA49 you can alter the voicing of just a single note. On the CN37 I can do it.
Thanks magicpiano for your reply. That is exactly what I am experiencing. After a certain velocity (mf-f-ff passages or staccato in general), the sound gets brighter, even with a heavy key touch. With the options available through the display I can only change the whole piano voicing and not just single keys. If I change it all to Brilliant, then it sound very even, as if that bright sound belonged to that setting and is sort of "misplaced" in the general/other voicing options of the piano. I prefer a warmer sound
I will borrow an iPad and check if changing single voicing would help. Do these features remain saved in the piano? Not that I have to borrow an iPad often
Well, it's normal that after a certain velocity the sound is brighter. From your video it just seems to happen a little too soon compared to the other notes.
Have you tried to transpose the keyboard so that the F#4 note will be on a white key rather than a black one? Maybe you use a little more force on the black keys...
Yes I have. I also have a video for only one semitone transposed
I also have the impression the brightness I get from that one note is anyway brighter that the brightness I get from other notes when pressed hard for the settings I have selected The thing is that people perceive these things differently. My flatmate did not notice any difference, two friends noticed immediately, so I wanted impressions from other piano owners. It is really off-putting when I am playing a piece and then you hear that one note sticking out.
The F# is perhaps the brightest sounding note in the octave. If you hold the F# down and listen for a while, compare that to the F natural, you'll hear some aspects (apart from frequency) that are different.
That said, I just listened to my MP7SE, and I don't hear that metalic twang that's in your video clip on the F#.
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
I read that in the CA49/59 series the SK-EX samples have been improved.
Maybe that brigher F#4 voicing is the result of one of these "improvements" (only Kawai James could answer us on this matter)? If that's the case, then the CA59 could have the same behavior too.
I like the SK sampling a lot more than the EX one. I would not like to change my start set up piano sound because of this To me it sounds so off that I do not think it belongs to the sample. I remember when testing the CA49 at stores I would play a piece I was working on where I use F#4 a couple of times and I do not remember it catching my attention for sounding so bright. Let's see what Kawai James thinks of the videos. Thanks magicpiano for your replies
You found a small anomaly in the MIDI data. Maybe it's more significant than you think.
And maybe the harshness of the effect varies from one piano variant to another.
As samples don't randomly break in random digital pianos it's likely a sensor issue and can be fixed. Might even be just some dirt i.e. a small foreign object inside the piano.
I don't hear any cow bells in the video. I hear a mobile phone recording which makes it difficult to say anything about the problem.
On quick scan, it seems you've accounted for a lot of variables (room resonances, individual sensitivity), specific key sensors. I do hear a slightly stronger timbre in the F# in your videos.
But have you tried triggering the note (along with its neighbors) via MIDI, so that you can be sure it's played at the same velocity against the other kys? Even while transposing, there could be some element of psychological "prepping" that may cause you to anticipate, and thus hit the target key harder than you intend to?
Also, have you tried a full factory reset? There may be some VT settings such as per-key brilliance that may have been inadvertently changed.
Had a very similar problem with a note on my CA78. No one from Kawai could hear it, although they did exchange my piano. Amazingly the problem continued with the new piano. I can still hear it to this day and have had to modify my technique to allow for it. Pain in the **** as it's the G above middle C. If you're in the UK, the technician that Kawai sent to look at my piano was clueless.
The retailer was horrendous to deal with, and point blank refused a refund unless I somehow managed to transport it 140 miles back to the depot. This nonsense went on for over a month until I decided to put it down to experience, and just learned to live with it.
In hindsight, I wish I had just hired a van and took it back to the store. To this day, there has been no explanation what caused it. I too did all the things you have done, moved the note around the keyboard, and the weird sound followed it. Nothing you can do will ever take away the different tone, and ringing. I've tried everything. The best you can do is find one of the samples that doesn't highlight it as much.
I hope you have better luck than I did, because as you can probably tell, I'm still fuming more than 18 months later. If you can, get a replacement, or a refund. I doubt they can repair it, and even if they could, I doubt they have anyone capable of diagnosing the problem, and then rectifying it.
If they do fix it, maybe they can come and do mine. Good luck.
I watched the video and it seems that the F#4 sound is a little brighter than the neighbouring keys.
Sometimes environmental factors such as the resonance/ambiance of a room can contribute to such phenomena, however if you experience the same characteristics via headphones, this is perhaps not the case.
It may be worthwhile visiting your dealer to check if you hear the same characteristic on their showroom CA49.
Originally Posted by AndresVel
I will borrow an iPad and check if changing single voicing would help.
the CA49 is not compatible with the Virtual Technician app, however an updated version of the PianoRemote which adds support for the CA49 and other new models will be released in the near future. Unfortunately, the CA49 does not support per-note voicing adjustment - neither via the control panel, nor via an app.
You did actually mention about transposing etc. so the problem is the sample or how you perceive it.
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
As samples don't randomly break in random digital pianos [...]
Not randomly, but if a new digital piano isn't completely untouched afterall then someone could have played around with the individual note adjustments. So, the factory reset suggestion made by someone makes sense.
Hello AndresVel, It may be worthwhile visiting your dealer to check if you hear the same characteristic on their showroom CA49. x
That is actually a very good idea. If I hear it also there it might just be how the sampling is and I might just not like how I perceive that single note.
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello AndresVel, the CA49 is not compatible with the Virtual Technician app, however an updated version of the PianoRemote which adds support for the CA49 and other new models will be released in the near future. Unfortunately, the CA49 does not support per-note voicing adjustment - neither via the control panel, nor via an app. x
Are you sure about the non-compatibility James? Under the specs of the CA49 there are 17 parameters I could adjust using virtual technician, which I cannot access via the control panel. Or are they the settings I will be able to adjust with PianoRemote in the future? https://www.kawai-global.com/product/ca49/ In any case, it is a pitty the single voicing function is not supported for my model
Hi Blue72 Thanks for your reply. I was reading though the original thread where you mentioned your problem. It is a shame you could not get this issue solved. I hope you still find enjoyment playing your piano (?) in spite of all this.
I bought mine from a small retailer who only focuses on piano (both digital and acoustics) and who even offers technical assistance separately. The owner seemed very kind and he even came himself to set up the piano at my place. He left a very good impression, so I am hopeful he will be keen to listen and address my concerns. In my case, I only find the problem in the SK Concert grand sample. I could off course change to a different one but I really like the rest of the SK sample. Otherwise, I would just leave it as it is and move on. Let's see what happens
But have you tried triggering the note (along with its neighbors) via MIDI, so that you can be sure it's played at the same velocity against the other kys?
I did this test but I found so hard to apply even pressure since it is a black key (so the one finger strategy does not work so smootly anymore). After finding a "reliable" procedure for testing I noticed a slightly larger difference with that key in approx. 60% of the cases when compare to other neighboring keys. But it was not ridiculously larger.
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Also, have you tried a full factory reset? There may be some VT settings such as per-key brilliance that may have been inadvertently changed.
I just tried this. I know I tried it before but this time it seems to actually help lol. I still hear the bright tone but with the factory reset the overall sound gets a bit brighter, so it is not so noticeable anymore. My previous settings were a "Bass Boost" in the Tone Control setting and a heavy touch and there the overall sound gets darker, enhancing the problem. Thanks for the suggestion. If no better solution pops up, I guess I would go with the default sound then.
