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Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
johnstaf #3032198 10/05/20 02:11 AM
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John,

Thanks for the very informative description. I love learning new things.

Originally Posted by johnstaf
I don't use the centre mic in the Decca Tree. This mic configuration was designed at Decca Records in the 1950s for recording huge and complicated sound sources such as orchestras. It's necessary to have the left and right mics quite far apart in order to cover the full orchestra. This can give the impression that there's a hole in the centre, and also makes it hard to pick up the woodwinds well. The centre mic was mixed in at low level to restore the balance. Panning left and right is enough for a source like the piano IMO.

So you use the Ribbon and Decca (Main L/R), but not the Decca Center, correct?

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
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Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #3032219 10/05/20 04:22 AM
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My pleasure. I love this stuff!

I use the ribbon and just a touch of the L/R for ambience. The L/R can be used as well by itself but it's a little bit too reverberant for my tastes.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #3032290 10/05/20 09:58 AM
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@johnstaf - I also would like to thank you for these educational insider posts. They are a pleasure to read.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #3032966 10/07/20 05:33 AM
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I've purchased the Standard version of the BI, and have immediately compared it to the old VI.

Well, they are really different instruments. The way to approach them is different. BI seems to be smoother than VI, whose dynamics I've always found to lean toward the forte. The position of the piano relative to the player is different, with the BI being farther, more into the space than under your fingers.

VI is a stronger piano. A studio piano, with a marked desire to be first, forward, in your face. BI is more laid back. It has a larger dynamic range, but it dominates it better.

The room mics in the Standard version are fine for me. To be true, I immediately switched from the Room Mix (including the surround mics) to the Decca tree, containing all the room information I need.

I would like to have the Tube mic, for that slighly far from the hammers sound; but the included Condenser mic seems to have the right balance between brightness and smoothness, never being harsh. And, mixed with the Mid 1 pair it gives a perfect blend, incisive and full.

As much as I would save money and give the BI back, I understand that it is a much more "classical music" piano, whereas the VI is still a more "jazz club" piano. So, both seem to be useful tools in production. And both are incredible fun!

Paolo

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paolo T #3032989 10/07/20 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Paolo T
Originally Posted by Harpuia
Does VSL still offer free trial to the full version of the Synchron Bosendorfer?

As far as I can see, there is no link to download a demo.

Paolo
If you shoot an email to support, they would likely let you trial it. Don't ask how I know. ;-)

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #3033215 10/07/20 06:38 PM
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The condenser mic of BI works much better than that on their Steinway. I like to blend the condenser with the tube mic for BI.


Piano: Yamaha N3X
VST(preference in order): VSL Synchron Pianos, Vienna Imperial, Garritan CFX, VI Labs Modern U, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq
Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Harpuia #3034338 10/11/20 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
The condenser mic of BI works much better than that on their Steinway. I like to blend the condenser with the tube mic for BI.
By comparing it to the one in the Lite version of the Steinway I own, and to the mic demos heard in VSL's site, it is clear how piercing and harsh the Steinway's condenser is, and how bright and round the one in the Bösendorfer is. Both reproduce the exact nature of the instrument.

The VSL Steinway came as a surprise for many of us, accustomed to the old 'balanced' and a bit on the mellow sound of that brand. Times are changing, and Steinway (and VSL) are adapting to the times. VSL's Steinway is a Yuja Wang piano, while the Bösendorfer is a Fedorova piano. They cover the opposites in the spectrum of modern pianism.

Paolo

Last edited by Paolo T; 10/11/20 05:29 AM.
Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #3036335 10/16/20 01:32 PM
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Found out today in my piano lesson BI doesn't have the very top B note. It shows on the keyboard display within the Vienna Synchron player that the key is being pressed but no sound is generated.

It was the first time using BI with the piece of music that required that note.

Very much confused me.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
KevinM #3036342 10/16/20 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
Found out today in my piano lesson BI doesn't have the very top B note. It shows on the keyboard display within the Vienna Synchron player that the key is being pressed but no sound is generated.

It was the first time using BI with the piece of music that required that note.

Very much confused me.

Mine has all the notes. Maybe it's your controller?


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Duane Shinn - 52 Week Crash Course - Completed
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Greg Howlett - Inspirational Improvisation - In Progress
Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
David B #3036368 10/16/20 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by David B
Originally Posted by KevinM
Found out today in my piano lesson BI doesn't have the very top B note. It shows on the keyboard display within the Vienna Synchron player that the key is being pressed but no sound is generated.

It was the first time using BI with the piece of music that required that note.

Very much confused me.

Mine has all the notes. Maybe it's your controller?

That it works for you is a useful bit of information for me, thanks David. In this case I know it isn't the controller, as I said within the Vienna Synchron Player it shows the note being played on its virtual keyboard just that no sound is produced. I'll see if I have somehow changed a setting within the Vienna Synchron Player to turn off the top note. The Vienna Imperial piano which I have used previously for this piece has no problem.

If I can't sort it, I'll ask on the vsl forums, which is where I should probably have mentioned this in the first place.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #3036378 10/16/20 03:56 PM
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I've had problems like this with VSL libraries before.

If there's a problem with the download or installation, you can end up with corrupted libraries that appear to be installed perfectly well.

In my case I think it was a dodgy USB 3 hub that caused the problem.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
KevinM #3036379 10/16/20 03:59 PM
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Kevin, the Timbre Shift causes samples to shift, so that keys play higher or lower samples transposed accordingly. As a result, shifting the timbre down means there are no samples for the highest keys to play. I wish they would just extend the range of the highest / lowest samples to cover the full compass of the keyboard.

Last edited by Ryan Reid; 10/16/20 03:59 PM.
Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
KevinM #3036381 10/16/20 04:01 PM
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Are you sure you do not have Timbre Shift set to -1 or -2? This silences the top notes. Not sure exactly why.




Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by David B
Originally Posted by KevinM
Found out today in my piano lesson BI doesn't have the very top B note. It shows on the keyboard display within the Vienna Synchron player that the key is being pressed but no sound is generated.

It was the first time using BI with the piece of music that required that note.

Very much confused me.

Mine has all the notes. Maybe it's your controller?

That it works for you is a useful bit of information for me, thanks David. In this case I know it isn't the controller, as I said within the Vienna Synchron Player it shows the note being played on its virtual keyboard just that no sound is produced. I'll see if I have somehow changed a setting within the Vienna Synchron Player to turn off the top note. The Vienna Imperial piano which I have used previously for this piece has no problem.

If I can't sort it, I'll ask on the vsl forums, which is where I should probably have mentioned this in the first place.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #3036393 10/16/20 04:21 PM
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Ah, this is exactly what I've done. I've got -2 on my Timbre Shift set. Thanks all.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Ryan Reid #3036456 10/16/20 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Reid
Kevin, the Timbre Shift causes samples to shift, so that keys play higher or lower samples transposed accordingly. As a result, shifting the timbre down means there are no samples for the highest keys to play. I wish they would just extend the range of the highest / lowest samples to cover the full compass of the keyboard.

That's interesting. I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing.

God bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Duane Shinn - 52 Week Crash Course - Completed
Duane Shinn - Praise and Gospel Course - In Progress
Greg Howlett - Inspirational Improvisation - In Progress
Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #3036468 10/16/20 10:12 PM
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Here are a couple explanations that are better than mine. From the Synchron Player manual:
Timbre Shift: Shifts the timbre by pitching samples upon playback, resulting in a warmer sound with negative values and a brighter sound with higher values.

And from Paul Kopf (the OP of this thread) on the VSL forum:
What happens in the background is that the samples are pitched for playback (up to an octave up and down), with interesting results, especially suitable for low velocities.
(https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t50675-NEW-FEATURE-Synchron-Pianos--Timbre-Shift#post279452)

Adjustments by +/-1-3 semitones can do wonders to the character of the pianos.

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #3047804 11/20/20 06:16 PM
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Hello Everyone,

First time, long time.

Read through this entire thread this past week. Now seriously considering purchasing the Synchron Bösendorfer - especially now with the Black Friday Deals announced today. My question for everyone is how much computer hardware power/memory is needed for it to function with-out hanging or avoiding hardware/software issues?

I do not compose and rarely use a DAW. I will use it to play the piano - it will be an alternative to Pianoteq 6.

My current set-up is an RD-2000 with MIDI out to a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 that interfaces with a Mini mac 2018 with (only) 8 GB RAM; 256 GB SSD; 3 GHz 6-Core i5, using Pianoteq 6 out to Focal monitors. There is no problems with Pianoteq on this current set-up such as latency, hardware/software issues, etc.

I am already looking for an external SSD (1 or 2 TB), and on at OWC’s site looking to get more RAM for the Mini mac.

My question: How much RAM to procure so this set-up will play the Synchron Bösendorfer Full Library smoothly with no latency or other unforeseen problems? 16, 32, or 64 GB? Or, alternatively, will this not be enough computer power to get the job done.

Thank you for your help and assistance. Take care.

Cheers.

Scott

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Paul Kopf #3047808 11/20/20 06:30 PM
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16GB of RAM will be enough to run 3-4 mics concurrently which is what I usually do.


Piano: Yamaha N3X
VST(preference in order): VSL Synchron Pianos, Vienna Imperial, Garritan CFX, VI Labs Modern U, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq
Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Harpuia #3047848 11/20/20 10:17 PM
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Harpuia

Thank you for your prompt response - and the information.

Scott

Re: NEW: VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
bwv872 #3047853 11/20/20 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bwv872
My question: How much RAM to procure so this set-up will play the Synchron Bösendorfer Full Library smoothly with no latency or other unforeseen problems? 16, 32, or 64 GB? Or, alternatively, will this not be enough computer power to get the job done.

Thank you for your help and assistance. Take care.

Cheers.

Scott

Yep, the VSL samples/software seem to be a resource hog compared to Pianoteq. I also have a MacMini 2018. I have 16GB of ram and can run 4/5 mics if I wanted to @ 64 buffer.

You should be OK with 16. However, 32 would be better. smile

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Duane Shinn - 52 Week Crash Course - Completed
Duane Shinn - Praise and Gospel Course - In Progress
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