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Ludovico Einaudi ???
#3036042 10/15/20 04:24 PM
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Hi

Before i begin, this post is not intended to offend any budding fans but just simply to express one's opinion, at the same time I'm aware their will be those in support of this post and those who are not, the post is regarding the so called great maestro himself "Ludovico Einaudi" no pun intended.

I think it is fair to say that Einaudi has long been a target of criticism by people who believe he unethically markets himself as a modern day great classical composer, misleading naive listeners who don't know any better, and impeding the intellectual and artistic development of any poor sap who happens upon his music.

It's also fair to say it's common knowledge when mentioning Einaudi to othere fellow musicians about how they perceive his music, and the common response is that his music is bland repetitive inarticulate, lacks any meaningful substance virtuosity and harmonic conservatism.

Mainstream critics have been generally less than complimentary about his music and the performer, describing it variously as unmemorable and humourless soulless unpalatably synthetic and cheap, and is clearly an overrated accomplished musician than he is given credit for.

So what are we to make of this so called great contemporary minimalist who's music is regularly criticized by people for being bland unchallenging unsophisticated or simply bad.

In contrast it would also be fair to say his music is pleasant as much as ambient background music can be.. but that's it.

So how did this man reach such musical success? with such an insipid mediocre talent.

Many have attested after listening to Einaudi in concert they couldn’t wait for it to end. Bland, stupefyingly uninspired, uninventive, shallow, witless, humourless drivel.

In despite of Einaudis ridiculously overrated musical success, it can only be perceived by the more serious musical artist, that Ludovico Einaudi is no more then a new age ambient minimalist, who has superseded to a status which far surpasses his mediocre talent.

A cheap branded composer, who attracts a cheap branded audience.

This critic has been to express the opinion and merits of Ludvico Einaudis artistic works and nothing more, in contrast i wish the man well.

Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Pianoworldstage #3036045 10/15/20 04:42 PM
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Coming from someone who is planning to soon record ambient music, your post reads as being petty and mean-spirited. I hope your album reviews are more balanced in presentation.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Pianoworldstage #3036072 10/15/20 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianoworldstage
So what are we to make of this so called great contemporary minimalist who's music is regularly criticized by people for being bland unchallenging unsophisticated or simply bad.

I don't know what we are to make of this, but that's mainly because I have no idea who this "we" is. Is there a "we", should there be a "we"? :-)

IMHO, music, as any art form, is a matter of taste. I try to let other people's opinions affect me only as long as they're enlightening (and thus could help me broaden my horizon). I'd certainly not start disliking an artist just because a critic wants (?) me to.


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Pianoworldstage #3036075 10/15/20 07:22 PM
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When I was fairly young, my uncle was just getting ready to take a bite of something (of what I've long forgotten). Whatever it was, it was something I didn't like. And before he could take that bite, I blurted out "oh my god, how can you eat that? gross!"

Well, I got quite the lecture from him, basically about how rude it was to say something like that to someone who was just getting ready to eat, that saying such a thing could make someone else feel bad for liking something someone else labeled as "gross," and that while there's a time and a place for discussions of taste, most of the time it's best to leave people alone and let them enjoy their pleasures in peace. I always remembered that lesson, and I remember how bad I felt for making my favorite uncle feel bad when all he was doing was trying to eat something he enjoyed....

That was the first thing your post (Pianoworldstage) made me think of. The second thing was this:

Quote
"the power of Einaudi...
What is that power? What is so enthralling about this Italian-born pianist and composer that his concerts around the world sell out months ahead of time? Why does every album he releases rocket to the top of the charts? With over one million streams a day, he has become the most streamed classical artist of all time"
(Pianist Magazine, issue 113, May 2020)

You do not have to like Einaudi, there are more than enough people around the world who do.

But why go to all the trouble to write such a negative post about him? Does his existence bother you so much? Is it threatening to you some how?

Why not see all the good? Music makes people happy, how can that be bad?

And as for piano, Einaudi not only sells lots of music (e.g., downloads and mp3s) he also sells a lot of sheet music, and most surely is the inspiration for a lot of people to start learning how to play the piano.

Lastly, a lot of people don't like Philip Glass but he doesn't seem to be the target for the kind of negativity that Einaudi is. Why is that? Just because Einaudi has achieved the kind of success and name recognition that is usually reserved for pop stars?

Again, why not focus on the good, or choose another topic? What is it that you hope to get out of starting this thread?

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 10/15/20 07:25 PM.

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Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Mickey_ #3036081 10/15/20 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mickey_
Originally Posted by Pianoworldstage
So what are we to make of this so called great contemporary minimalist who's music is regularly criticized by people for being bland unchallenging unsophisticated or simply bad.

I don't know what we are to make of this, but that's mainly because I have no idea who this "we" is. Is there a "we", should there be a "we"? :-)
I believe the OP meant the 'royal "we"' wink .......unless, of course he lives in a republic.

We, however, are royally amused at the mention of 'ambient music' in Pianist Corner, that last bastion of 'classical music', which of course encompasses everything from Medieval to Avant-Garde:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YTOiJ-zjP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwxB4lFMy3U

............not forgetting ambient music like this, which is de rigeur listening on your MP3/FLAC portable device when you go hiking in Earth's greatest Natural Wonder of the World:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc6oYN_2h6g


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Pianoworldstage #3036087 10/15/20 08:13 PM
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The statement "misleading naive listeners who don't know any better" says more about the OP's attitude than it does about Einaudi's audience. I can't stand Einaudi, but I don't think it makes me somehow superior to people who do.

Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Pianoworldstage #3036107 10/15/20 09:45 PM
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Einaudi is a trashy composer with hooked-up parents/ legacy.

He's in the same class as Richard Clayderman, but even more trite and crass.

These hacks write stuff barely on par with anime music.

Einaudi is junk food, and the fact that we even talk about him is too good for him.

Last edited by jeffcat; 10/15/20 09:49 PM.
Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Pianoworldstage #3036118 10/15/20 10:31 PM
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Kenny G tier.

Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Pianoworldstage #3036167 10/16/20 03:47 AM
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Einaudi may write repetitive music, but at least he's not creating repetitive threads on PianoWorld.
Einaudi thread on PianoWorld (ABF)


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My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
patH #3036180 10/16/20 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by patH
Einaudi may write repetitive music, but at least he's not creating repetitive threads on PianoWorld.
Einaudi thread on PianoWorld (ABF)


I’m glad the OP did not use the ABF thread. There is a group of ABF forum members there who enjoy Einaudi, and play his music. This diatribe that insults the composer and those that like and play his music really has no place in that thread.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
dogperson #3036185 10/16/20 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by patH
Einaudi may write repetitive music, but at least he's not creating repetitive threads on PianoWorld.
Einaudi thread on PianoWorld (ABF)


I’m glad the OP did not use the ABF thread. There is a group of ABF forum members there who enjoy Einaudi, and play his music. This diatribe that insults the composer and those that like and play his music really has no place in that thread.
I just skimmed that thread again, and you are right. It seems to be an Einaudi fan thread only.

In my memory, I thought there was also critical discussion of his music there. Guess I'm getting older, and my memory is playing tricks on me. laugh

Last edited by patH; 10/16/20 05:32 AM.

My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Pianoworldstage #3036197 10/16/20 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Pianoworldstage
This critic has been to express the opinion and merits of Ludvico Einaudis artistic works and nothing more, in contrast i wish the man well.

Huh?


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Pianoworldstage #3036220 10/16/20 08:36 AM
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I'm not sure what the hold is but it seems to get to people anyway. It doesn't seem worth it to speculate on why, or to make broad comments on the sophistication level of the listener. It's enough that it simply seems to be liked.

So...do I play it? You bet I do. And every time I get "oooh, what is that?" from the dancers and teachers (I play as a ballet accompanist.)

I will admit, though, WHILE I am playing it, I wish that it had more, went more places, and did something else. I try to shape it and make it go places, but it sort of resists my efforts to do that. I will say that while there is not a single piece of Einaudi's that I like as a completed whole, and I absolutely never play Einaudi when I sit down to play for my own pleasure, there are moments and measures I do think are lovely and interesting. I can like those moments, and therefore like Einaudi, without trashing him for failing to meet a different standard.

Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
Pianoworldstage #3036226 10/16/20 09:03 AM
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I think maybe part of the problem is classification. Outside of the world of classical musicians, Einaudi tends to be described as a classical composer. But he's really not, IMO. He's a musician composing within popular music parameters who happens to work with classical instruments, i.e., he plays solo piano and also composes for both piano+strings and full orchestra. So non-classical musicians see the instrumentation and call it classical, but classical musicians compare it to "true" classical music and call it rubbish. Maybe people would feel less compelled to complain about him if he were more consistently classified in some other way.

Anyway, I still don't understand the motivation for this thread. Why not just "live and let live"?


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
ShiroKuro #3036228 10/16/20 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
I think maybe part of the problem is classification. Outside of the world of classical musicians, Einaudi tends to be described as a classical composer. But he's really not, IMO. He's a musician composing within popular music parameters who happens to work with classical instruments, i.e., he plays solo piano and also composes for both piano+strings and full orchestra. So non-classical musicians see the instrumentation and call it classical, but classical musicians compare it to "true" classical music and call it rubbish. Maybe people would feel less compelled to complain about him if he were more consistently classified in some other way.

Anyway, I still don't understand the motivation for this thread. Why not just "live and let live"?

That's a good way to describe it. I've also struggled to classify him and this does a good job of describing what it IS, without excoriating it for what it's NOT.

Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
ShiroKuro #3036262 10/16/20 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
I think maybe part of the problem is classification. Outside of the world of classical musicians, Einaudi tends to be described as a classical composer. But he's really not, IMO. He's a musician composing within popular music parameters who happens to work with classical instruments, i.e., he plays solo piano and also composes for both piano+strings and full orchestra. So non-classical musicians see the instrumentation and call it classical, but classical musicians compare it to "true" classical music and call it rubbish. Maybe people would feel less compelled to complain about him if he were more consistently classified in some other way.

Anyway, I still don't understand the motivation for this thread. Why not just "live and let live"?

I would like to know how the OP classifies his music as he will soon be recording music which seems to be similar in style (ambient music per his description in another thread)


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
dogperson #3036275 10/16/20 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
I would like to know how the OP classifies his music as he will soon be recording music which seems to be similar in style (ambient music per his description in another thread)

I don't know anything about the OP and I don't think I've read any of his/her posts about the kind of music s/he plans to compose. (has the OP even been back to this thread since starting it?)

But in any case, if the OP is planning to compose "ambient" music, perhaps that explains the vitriol towards Einaudi?

Nevertheless, the question of classification comes up a lot when people talk about Einaudi, or George Winston etc. I have always been of the opinion that "new age" is not the right term, but there isn't really a satisfactory (or universally recognized) alternative....


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
ShiroKuro #3036278 10/16/20 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
When I was fairly young, my uncle was just getting ready to take a bite of something (of what I've long forgotten). Whatever it was, it was something I didn't like. And before he could take that bite, I blurted out "oh my god, how can you eat that? gross!"

Well, I got quite the lecture from him, basically about how rude it was to say something like that to someone who was just getting ready to eat, that saying such a thing could make someone else feel bad for liking something someone else labeled as "gross," and that while there's a time and a place for discussions of taste, most of the time it's best to leave people alone and let them enjoy their pleasures in peace. I always remembered that lesson, and I remember how bad I felt for making my favorite uncle feel bad when all he was doing was trying to eat something he enjoyed....

That was the first thing your post (Pianoworldstage) made me think of. The second thing was this:

Quote
"the power of Einaudi...
What is that power? What is so enthralling about this Italian-born pianist and composer that his concerts around the world sell out months ahead of time? Why does every album he releases rocket to the top of the charts? With over one million streams a day, he has become the most streamed classical artist of all time"
(Pianist Magazine, issue 113, May 2020)

You do not have to like Einaudi, there are more than enough people around the world who do.

But why go to all the trouble to write such a negative post about him? Does his existence bother you so much? Is it threatening to you some how?

Why not see all the good? Music makes people happy, how can that be bad?

And as for piano, Einaudi not only sells lots of music (e.g., downloads and mp3s) he also sells a lot of sheet music, and most surely is the inspiration for a lot of people to start learning how to play the piano.

Lastly, a lot of people don't like Philip Glass but he doesn't seem to be the target for the kind of negativity that Einaudi is. Why is that? Just because Einaudi has achieved the kind of success and name recognition that is usually reserved for pop stars?

Again, why not focus on the good, or choose another topic? What is it that you hope to get out of starting this thread?
Totally agree with you. We like what we like, regardless of how it has been labeled.


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
ShiroKuro #3036306 10/16/20 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
I think maybe part of the problem is classification. Outside of the world of classical musicians, Einaudi tends to be described as a classical composer. But he's really not, IMO. He's a musician composing within popular music parameters who happens to work with classical instruments, i.e., he plays solo piano and also composes for both piano+strings and full orchestra. So non-classical musicians see the instrumentation and call it classical, but classical musicians compare it to "true" classical music and call it rubbish. Maybe people would feel less compelled to complain about him if he were more consistently classified in some other way.
Einaudi is described as a "contemporary classical composer." Here's a definition I found....

"Contemporary classical music is classical music relative to the present day. At the beginning of the 21st century, it commonly referred to the post-1945 modern forms of post-tonal music after the death of Anton Webern, and included serial music, electronic music, experimental music, and minimalist music."

So never having heard anything by Einaudi I spent a little time on youtube. Took about two minutes. Gotta agree with ShirKuro's observation. Einaudi's work doesn't match the definition above - not even close. It is what it is - and some folks apparently like it - which is fine. Personally I prefer music that has more substance - even for casual listening.


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi ???
jeffcat #3036312 10/16/20 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Einaudi is a trashy composer with hooked-up parents/ legacy.

He's in the same class as Richard Clayderman, but even more trite and crass.

These hacks write stuff barely on par with anime music.

Einaudi is junk food, and the fact that we even talk about him is too good for him.

Thanks for your honest comment Jeffcat, my sentiments exactly.

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