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Portato
#3035476 10/14/20 09:47 AM
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Beemer Offline OP
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Are Portato signs valid in piano music, or just in stringed instruments or when notating string music played on piano?
Ian


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Re: Portato
Beemer #3035488 10/14/20 10:13 AM
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Common on synths among others.
Wiki say same as portamento which is standard on synths.

On digital stage pianos you might have a pitch wheel and can do it manually.
I've seen pianist on grand piano using a bottle as slide on strings in piano but hardly doable right in a piece, probably.

From wiki
"portamento
Carrying (i.e. 1. generally, sliding in pitch from one note to another, usually pausing just above or below the final pitch, then sliding quickly to that pitch. If no pause is executed, then it is a basic glissando; or 2. in piano music, an articulation between legato and staccato, like portato)

portato or louré
Carried (i.e. non-legato, but not as detached as staccato) (same as portamento)"


Kawai MP7SE - Hammond XK3c - Synthesizers
Re: Portato
Nip #3035491 10/14/20 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Nip
Common on synths among others.
Wiki say same as portamento which is standard on synths.

On digital stage pianos you might have a pitch wheel and can do it manually.
I've seen pianist on grand piano using a bottle as slide on strings in piano but hardly doable right in a piece, probably.

From wiki
"portamento
Carrying (i.e. 1. generally, sliding in pitch from one note to another, usually pausing just above or below the final pitch, then sliding quickly to that pitch. If no pause is executed, then it is a basic glissando; or 2. in piano music, an articulation between legato and staccato, like portato)

portato or louré
Carried (i.e. non-legato, but not as detached as staccato) (same as portamento)"
You have introduced 'portamento' into the thread which I did not mention and which has no connection at all to the notation 'portato'
Ian

Last edited by Beemer; 10/14/20 10:17 AM.

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Re: Portato
Beemer #3035492 10/14/20 10:24 AM
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Portato is explained as you see as same as portamento.
Did you miss reading that part?

So seems there is such an articulation for piano "in piano music an articulation between legato and staccato, like portato".

So short answer is Yes.


Kawai MP7SE - Hammond XK3c - Synthesizers
Re: Portato
Beemer #3035493 10/14/20 10:27 AM
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Taken from this article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_music_terminology#S

If you know better, why ask?


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Re: Portato
Beemer #3035494 10/14/20 10:34 AM
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I can hilight it a bit larger

"portato or louré
Carried (i.e. non-legato, but not as detached as staccato) (same as portamento)"
"

Last edited by Nip; 10/14/20 10:35 AM.

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Re: Portato
Beemer #3035521 10/14/20 11:56 AM
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Yes, portato signs are valid.

Where the notation is used on one note, without pedal, it requires that the key is not fully released before being played again, taking advantage of the double escapement, and is a distinct technique. When the pedal is held it might be used to point the notes more by changing the normal accents in the measure. This latter is how they might be used in Chopin's first nocturne, for example.
______________________

For those that don't know, portamento is a glissando that is not possible on piano. The nearest a pianist can get is to play portato and so the two terms have become synonyms in some quarters but they are not the same thing at all. Portato notation, as mentioned specifically in the OP, is quite distinct from a glissando.


Richard
Re: Portato
Beemer #3035550 10/14/20 01:15 PM
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Example of portato
portato example
Ian


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Re: Portato
Beemer #3035558 10/14/20 01:30 PM
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Example of potato
potato example
Not Ian

Re: Portato
Beemer #3035576 10/14/20 02:38 PM
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Schubert would be looking to make the piano sound like strings. You can use pedal but a pedal marking is too precise since it won't be held down for the duration. On repeated notes you can also make use of the double escapement by not releasing the key fully and preventing the dampers from landing.

Here's an interesting link.


Richard
Re: Portato
rkzhao #3035712 10/15/20 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rkzhao
Example of potato
potato example
Not Ian

[Linked Image]


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: Portato
Beemer #3035720 10/15/20 03:02 AM
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My thanks to all who helped me understand the way portato can apply to piano. I liked the fun reply but not the eventual patronising attitude of another.
Ian


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2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Portato
Beemer #3035912 10/15/20 11:10 AM
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My piano teacher described portato as "like playing staccato into a soft pillow." Notes are held longer than staccato, but distinctly detached.


"Serena," my Estonia L168.
Re: Portato
Beemer #3035954 10/15/20 12:13 PM
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My childhood piano teacher actually just taught it as "mezzo-staccato" if I remember correctly. It made enough sense when thinking of it that way.

Since I stopped taking piano lessons, I haven't really kept up with all the musical jargon but I believe this thread is actually the first time I really heard the term "portato" used. I have heard it referred to as "portamento" before.

Re: Portato
Beemer #3036196 10/16/20 06:34 AM
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Portato is not mezzo staccato. The notes are not cut short they are "carried" to the next note. You can, nevertheless, use a mezzo staccato touch along with pedal to bring it off.

I think of portare as carrying not just the note but also the accent. For counting semiquavers I use words of four syllables that fall naturally into strong, weak, medium and weak accents, such as huckleberry or Peterborough. For portare I try to think of them as four downbeats such as go, go, go, go!


Richard

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