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Originally Posted by Pianopaige
Hi Guido,

I think you should think more about the safety of the piano in a location. If it’s likely to be knocked about by visitors, children, pets, then maybe have a rethink.

A really, really small baby grand will fit into a corner and take up not much more room than an upright. Anything over five ft will start dominating the space.

No children (usually), no pets in the apartment (only when others bring in one), the ceiling is 9 feet and 10 inches high (3 meters) and in the same room I would have only a clavinova 307 and a library (2 meters long). I would put the clavinova and the library one in front of the other in the two longer opposite walls. The Kawai GL-10 should be set at the end of the room where there is a window and a door for a little terrace (in the shorter wall opposite to the other where there is the entrance to the room.

Guido

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Originally Posted by j&j
Pianoloverus is right, as usual. Get one of those templates from the dealer. They are really handy when deciding where to put your new grand piano for purchase and also if you’re moving.

If you really want a small grand instead of an upright in a smaller room you can make it work acoustically and visually but must absolutely avoid clutter and other non essential stuff in that room. Maybe a small wall storage for music books and a couple chairs or small loveseat for your audience and that’s it. A music related framed picture or painting over the piano really sets it off.

There are many threads on PW on this subject. It’s best to do a Google search on the subject and it will bring up tons of room size discussions. The PW search isn’t quite as intuitive as Google. It works more like older search engines with quotes and symbols.

Best Wishes! Hope you get your GL10 and are able to enjoy it to the fullest.

Hi, my room has a rectangular shape, in one of the shorter side there is the entrance door and in the opposite shorter side there is a window with an heather under it and a door to a small balcony. Looking from the entrance door the balcony is on the right. In the room there will also be a clavinova 307 on one side of one of the longer side and a library (2 meters long) on the opposite side, right at the beginning of the room looking from the entrance door.

I would set the baby grand toward the end of the room on the left side (looking from the entrance door) with the longer side of the piano on the left side of the room.

Of course, the advice for using a template plus three chairs is sensible and I will follow it, however, I am not so sure to be able to evaluate the visible impact. I was wondering if someone has a similar space (i.e. room size) and feels very comfortable with a baby grand similar to the size of a Kawai GL-10 (5 feet long = 153 cm).

How can I find discussions on PW forum regarding the reasonable room size? I have not been able to find them, this is why I opened a new thread.

Guido.

Last edited by Guido, Roma - Italy; 10/11/20 05:08 PM.
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Guido
TBell, in a post above, referred you to room measurement sizes from Piano Buyer. Which is the most informative source we have. A 5 ft piano will eork based on their calculations.

You should re-read the post from MatkL above, as his room size is the same as yours.


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Originally Posted by Guido, Roma - Italy
Of course, the advice for using a template plus three chairs is sensible and I will follow it, however, I am not so sure to be able to evaluate the visible impact. I
Guido.

You can also use a free 3D interior design application, such as Sweet Home 3D. Would give you a nice visualization for any layout of your room.


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Originally Posted by BDB
You need about 2 meters in width, and the length of the piano and a bit less than a meter in length. That gives adequate room for the movers to set it up, and for you to sit at it and the technician to work on it.

Hi BDB,

I did not think about the space needed by the technician!

This is very important.

I thought I could put the piano close to one wall of the room (the longer side of the piano close to one of the longer side of the room) so to have 1,5 meters on the right side of the piano to have more space on the right since I need to be able to reach the balcony at the end of the room!

Looking from the entrance door towards the end of the room, I have the longer sides of the room on my left and on my right, at the end of the room on the right there is a door to a balcony. I would place the piano close to the left side of the room and towards the end of the room.

How much space should I leave for the technician, on both sides, so he can work on the baby grand?

Guido

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If you are planning for the long side of the piano to be along the long side of the room, you might think about a slightly longer piano too if the budget allows for it.


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Originally Posted by Guido, Roma - Italy
Originally Posted by BDB
You need about 2 meters in width, and the length of the piano and a bit less than a meter in length. That gives adequate room for the movers to set it up, and for you to sit at it and the technician to work on it.

Hi BDB,

I did not think about the space needed by the technician!

This is very important.

I thought I could put the piano close to one wall of the room (the longer side of the piano close to one of the longer side of the room) so to have 1,5 meters on the right side of the piano to have more space on the right since I need to be able to reach the balcony at the end of the room!
I don't think you need any space on the straight side of the piano for the technician. You do need space enough so the tech can remove the action if necessary. I don't know how much space behind the bench is usually recommended although I see BDB recommends about a meter. OTOH I don't think you would usually want to put the straight side only a few inches from a wall as this may not look good.

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If the piano fits in the room, it fits in the room.

You need perhaps 20-30 cm on the sides and the tail-end of the piano, plus about a meter on the keyboard side. So, a GL-10 would fit in a room about 2m x 2.5m

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Guido - if you Google search the appropriate thread topic PianoWorld threads about room size and piano placement will be displayed. Room size and fitting a piano is a very popular topic here.

Larry Fines PianoBuyer has an informative article too and a link has been provided earlier. MarkL has nearly the same size room and has placed his piano successfully so again getting a GL 10 should work. I have the long side of my grand nearly against the wall but I left a couple inches between the wall and piano so my tech has access to pull the action. Do some Google searches, read the appropriate article on PianoBuyer, get the template from the Kawai dealer, and have fun instead of fretting. Best Wishes. I hope you keep us posted on your progress and the post pictures here and “My new to me piano story” when it’s delivered.


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Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka
If the piano fits in the room, it fits in the room.

You need perhaps 20-30 cm on the sides and the tail-end of the piano, plus about a meter on the keyboard side. So, a GL-10 would fit in a room about 2m x 2.5m

Yes, but as a reminder the question our OP raised was "my doubt is that it will look and be inappropriate to have such a size of piano in this room. What do you think?"

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What's more important is to think about what color you will paint the room beforehand, because when the baby grand is there it will take up all your time and you won't have time left to paint the room. smirk

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Originally Posted by U3piano
What's more important is to think about what color you will paint the room beforehand, because when the baby grand is there it will take up all your time and you won't have time left to paint the room. smirk

This is really the best advice!

Thank everybody for all your sensitive suggestions:

1) any piano that fits in the room, will fit the room
2) allow one meter for the bench
3) leave enough clearence around the rim for the technician
4) use three chairs to phisically simulate the piano in the room
5) follow the 10:1 rule, anything over 10 will be ok (room perimeter : piano length)
6) paint the room first smile

Guido

Last edited by Guido, Roma - Italy; 10/13/20 06:59 PM.
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Also, if you paint the room first, you will not get any paint spots on the piano!

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Originally Posted by David-G
Also, if you paint the room first, you will not get any paint spots on the piano!
Well, he can just paint piano as well then!
Painting string one by one may take a while though...


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Guido,

You wrote that the ceiling is 3M high. Although it doesn't solve your problem, I believe tthat is an advantage accoustically. It will also look Better, in my opinion, as there will be plenty of space over the piano, even with the wing opem.


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Originally Posted by almo82
Guido,

You wrote that the ceiling is 3M high. Although it doesn't solve your problem, I believe tthat is an advantage accoustically. It will also look Better, in my opinion, as there will be plenty of space over the piano, even with the wing opem.

3m ceiling, and 3m wide room, i.e. 1:1 ratio - you would need bass traps, to avoid low frequency standing wave buildup (there are other DIY options as well, like Helmholtz Resonator or Diaphragmatic Absorber). Easy to check - you would need them if there are notes to the left of middle C that are noticeably uneven (boomy or weak). Some furniture placed in corners and/or along one of walls may help, also. Keep in mind that such uneven notes depend both on room dimensions and on spot where you listen. You would need to check at least your playing position and the place where your listener(s) will sit.
You can google for more information about standing waves in a room, and how to calculate them.


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Some extra space behind the bench would keep your technician happy. One house I went to had zero space behind the bench, and the bench was already pretty close to the piano. It was quite a squeeze to pull the action out. As long as there enough space left in the room to move the piano away from the wall, you can place it fairly close to the wall.

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Originally Posted by VladK
3m ceiling, and 3m wide room, i.e. 1:1 ratio - you would need bass traps, to avoid low frequency standing wave buildup (there are other DIY options as well, like Helmholtz Resonator or Diaphragmatic Absorber). Easy to check - you would need them if there are notes to the left of middle C that are noticeably uneven (boomy or weak). Some furniture placed in corners and/or along one of walls may help, also. Keep in mind that such uneven notes depend both on room dimensions and on spot where you listen. You would need to check at least your playing position and the place where your listener(s) will sit.
You can google for more information about standing waves in a room, and how to calculate them.

Actually, my room measures are 5 meters long x 2,95 meters wide x 3 meters high. Should I still need bass traps? In the room there is also a closed bookshelf.

Originally Posted by K8KT
Some extra space behind the bench would keep your technician happy. One house I went to had zero space behind the bench, and the bench was already pretty close to the piano. It was quite a squeeze to pull the action out. As long as there enough space left in the room to move the piano away from the wall, you can place it fairly close to the wall.

This is a very useful suggestion, I was thinking to leave just the space for a bench with the wall behind me (60 cm) and 80 cm after the back (60 + 155 + 80 = 295 cm). Would this be a difficult placement for a technician?

Guido

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Actually you will not know if you need bass traps until you play the piano. If your walls are single layer drywall, it lets basses escape easily; plywood may be trickier. You would definitely need them if you had any soundproofing applied to the room.
You will get standing waves, but their effect can be deminishing if your walls and ceiling let basses escape easily.
Another issue which can happen in any small room and with any piano - it may sound muddy because of too many reflections in the room, which cause not just too long reverbs (these are fine), but reverbs in a big range of timings. Some mid-high absorbtion would help: thick rag on floor, heavy drapes on one wall, etc.

Last edited by VladK; 10/19/20 10:30 AM.

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Hi everybody,

I did try to figure out how a baby grand (likely a Kawai GL-30) could fit in my room:

http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/galleries/3086663.html#Post3086663

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