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Re: COVID-19 Excuse
Pau Gasol #3037077 10/18/20 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Pau Gasol
Specifically, 25 different people coming into the house aren't going to transmit any germs to each other, because their contact with each other is brief, like ships passing in the night. Instead, they are going to give their germs to the teacher, who sits in close proximity with them for 30 or 60 minutes. And yes, if the teacher gets sick he/she is likely to give it to the other students as well.

So, by your argument, we should immediately shut down all the Costco warehouses in the country. When is the last time you went to Costco and spent less than 30 minutes there? And is Costco operating at 25% capacity to enable social distancing? And do you wipe down all the merchandise with sanitary wipes before you touch it? Do you know how many hands were on that bottle of olive oil before you grabbed it and put it in your cart?

It is a mathematical certainty that you are more likely to contract COVID through community spread at Costco, then you are at a private piano lesson. But, unless you are immuno-compromised or above age 70, you should really continue with both activities as usual.


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Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3037086 10/18/20 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by Pau Gasol
Specifically, 25 different people coming into the house aren't going to transmit any germs to each other, because their contact with each other is brief, like ships passing in the night. Instead, they are going to give their germs to the teacher, who sits in close proximity with them for 30 or 60 minutes. And yes, if the teacher gets sick he/she is likely to give it to the other students as well.



It is a mathematical certainty that you are more likely to contract COVID through community spread at Costco, then you are at a private piano lesson. But, unless you are immuno-compromised or above age 70, you should really continue with both activities as usual.

How many of those people at Costco do you sit next to on the bench (or the chair next to the bench) for thirty minutes? It's easy to shop at Costco without getting sick; wear a mask, wash hands afterward (or wear gloves like some people do) and avoid the aisles where there already a lot of people in them. But invite 25 of those people to my house and let them sit next to me for thirty minutes? No way.

Re: COVID-19 Excuse
Pau Gasol #3037117 10/18/20 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Pau Gasol
How many of those people at Costco do you sit next to on the bench (or the chair next to the bench) for thirty minutes? It's easy to shop at Costco without getting sick; wear a mask, wash hands afterward (or wear gloves like some people do) and avoid the aisles where there already a lot of people in them. But invite 25 of those people to my house and let them sit next to me for thirty minutes? No way.

Your "30 minutes" argument makes no sense, but, whatever.

"Getting sick" is not the end of the world. There are already therapeutics available. As long as you take care of yourself and be clean, there's no reason to NOT live life as usual.

The worldwide survival rate of COVID is 99.7%. And if you take out those age 60 and above, the survival rate is 99.9%. For children age 0-18, the survival rate is 99.97%. And these are just conservative estimates based on incomplete data. The actual number is probably even higher than that. It is a well-established fact that more children have died from the seasonal flu than from COVID.

You have a MUCH higher chance of dying when you drive on the freeway. Does that mean you should stop driving?

So, that brings me back to the original topic: Are parents really just using COVID-19 as an excuse to stop piano lessons or to continue with Zoom lessons indefinitely? At this point, the scientific evidence is overwhelming. My guess is that people are holding out for the vaccine, or they are so paranoid and brainwashed that they can't accept factual information.


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Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3037147 10/18/20 07:20 PM
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Just looking at the Johns Hopkins data, the COVID fatality rate among confirmed cases in the US is at 2.7%. Of course, there are asymptomatic cases that are not identified, but this still is much higher than flu. It also does not account for morbidity, as many who survive the illness have quite serious and unpredictable after-effects. It is a very nasty disease.

I'll just mention that my very fit 30-something son, a physician, contracted COVID at the height of the NY outbreak in April, when health care workers had inadequate PPE (personal protective equipment). He was ill for a week or so--feeling worse than he's ever felt with an illness. He then recovered--great--and went back to work. He still has a residual cough and reduced endurance more than 6 months later. No one knows what the longterm effects on health will be.

I am not a piano teacher but I certainly support my teacher's decision to remain remote for now. Clearly one needs to consider the infection rate in one's own area, but I don't want to see anyone taking this lightly.


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Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3037159 10/18/20 07:50 PM
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There have been some fallacies being bandied around in this thread by people who really should know better, but let me make one thing clear:

You are at much higher risk of catching the virus if people come into your home, even if they don't sit and chat with you, than if you go out shopping in a supermarket, unless you keep stopping to have long chats with people rather than actually shop. Think about it.

And another thing: Covid-19 is much more dangerous than the seasonal flu, and we know it has the potential to cause 'Long Covid' syndromes - where you suffer chronic illness (including lasting organ damage) following 'recovery' from the actual infection. Young, previously healthy people have been afflicted in this way.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3037481 10/19/20 05:16 PM
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If you enthusiastically downplay the severity and attempt to interpret science as if you're a scientist you will definitely lose those students who are taking this seriously.

Also, I've find that the people who think it's all "media hype" are more likely to not follow basic hygiene or protect themselves when in public, so that right there is a red flag for me. Think about it, If you're already on the fence about in person lessons would really want to go inside someones home who didn't take it seriously and thought it was all BS? I'm pretty sure you would have a better chance of getting them back if instead railing against the media you bragged about how you sanitize anything touched by the students after every lesson, maintain distance, wear a mask and installed air purifiers, otherwise they might think you're that guy having a no mask meltdown at the Walmart.

At the end of the day , nobody wants to get sick of anyting period--




Re: COVID-19 Excuse
Miguel Rey #3037601 10/20/20 02:06 AM
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Excuse me? I find your tone just a bit on the combative side. Please keep it civil.

Originally Posted by Miguel Rey
If you enthusiastically downplay the severity and attempt to interpret science as if you're a scientist you will definitely lose those students who are taking this seriously.

I don't have to "enthusiastically downplay the severity" because COVID is never that dangerous to begin with. If you take out the over 70 population, COVID is really not that different from the seasonal flu. Over 90% of the people who died from COVID had comorbidities. If you are under 60 and you are in perfect health, COVID's effect on you is minimal. MOST people who get COVID are asymptomatic, or have mild symptoms.

I also don't have to "interpret science" because actual scientists have already said everything I said. I am just repeating what they said. Now, if you want to quote Mr. Fauci and the growing list of incompetent, doom-and-gloom scientists, that's your right to do. Just be aware that the science is STRONG behind the points I'm making. It is not an interpretation.

Please don't believe everything you see on TV or the Internet. Question everything.

Originally Posted by Miguel Rey
Also, I've find that the people who think it's all "media hype" are more likely to not follow basic hygiene or protect themselves when in public, so that right there is a red flag for me. Think about it, If you're already on the fence about in person lessons would really want to go inside someones home who didn't take it seriously and thought it was all BS? I'm pretty sure you would have a better chance of getting them back if instead railing against the media you bragged about how you sanitize anything touched by the students after every lesson, maintain distance, wear a mask and installed air purifiers, otherwise they might think you're that guy having a no mask meltdown at the Walmart.

I can't follow your argument. This paragraph makes no sense to me. Sorry to say.

Originally Posted by Miguel Rey
At the end of the day , nobody wants to get sick of anyting period--

True. But we share the planet with these viruses. It's a fact, so we need to learn to live with it.


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Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3037613 10/20/20 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Excuse me? I find your tone just a bit on the combative side. Please keep it civil.

I hate to say it but you set the tone. I do not find that post combative, btw. Throughout, you have labeled anyone not holding your opinions. They are paranoid, brainwashed etc. The idea that anyone can be informing themselves and be intelligent about it does not seem to exist with those assumptions. I have tried to influence that tone, but you still apply those labels - so there was a push-back, a very mild one, a civil one. I've had to hold back my own anger, and I don't get riled easily.

In regard to what you "said" about science - you never went past statistics. There is more to a disease than numbers. And you are not an expert in that field. Neither is anyone else here, but we're also not trying to say what's right and wrong about this. When you say something about music, piano, or teaching, I am all ears.

I will repeat. This thread is not about piano or teaching, though at one point it might have been, and it is destructive.

Re: COVID-19
jdw #3037614 10/20/20 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jdw
I'll just mention that my very fit 30-something son, a physician, contracted COVID at the height of the NY outbreak in April, when health care workers had inadequate PPE (personal protective equipment). He was ill for a week or so--feeling worse than he's ever felt with an illness. He then recovered--great--and went back to work. He still has a residual cough and reduced endurance more than 6 months later. No one knows what the longterm effects on health will be.
I just want to say that I wish your son a continued improvement, and a thank you to the health professionals out there. In my area we have three nurses. We talk - at a distance - about these things. And I always wish for them to stay healthy.

Re: COVID-19
AZNpiano #3037626 10/20/20 04:44 AM
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I belong to a music group with 20+ people playing various instruments. We used to practice in a local church once a week until March of this year. The church building has been closed for health concerns.

I don't think we would get back to playing music as a group for a while. There are some younger people in the group (30+) and a few seniors (80+). Various parts of the country have been in and out of lockdown since march as the number of infections fluctuate. It's not easy to find rehearsal space big enough to accommodate 20+ people. A music studio in the city where local musicians would perform regularly closed earlier this year. After 6 months, the music studio reopened for performers without an audience. The performances would be livestreamed online.

Re: COVID-19
AZNpiano #3037668 10/20/20 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
So, that brings me back to the original topic: Are parents really just using COVID-19 as an excuse to stop piano lessons or to continue with Zoom lessons indefinitely? At this point, the scientific evidence is overwhelming. My guess is that people are holding out for the vaccine, or they are so paranoid and brainwashed that they can't accept factual information.

Unlikely. I'd imagine it's simply one of a possible host of considerations. And have parents ever felt like they needed an excuse to quit beforehand anyway?

Re: COVID-19
keystring #3037725 10/20/20 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by jdw
I'll just mention that my very fit 30-something son, a physician, contracted COVID at the height of the NY outbreak in April, when health care workers had inadequate PPE (personal protective equipment). He was ill for a week or so--feeling worse than he's ever felt with an illness. He then recovered--great--and went back to work. He still has a residual cough and reduced endurance more than 6 months later. No one knows what the longterm effects on health will be.
I just want to say that I wish your son a continued improvement, and a thank you to the health professionals out there. In my area we have three nurses. We talk - at a distance - about these things. And I always wish for them to stay healthy.

Thanks very much for the kind words, keystring!

I hate to see people in denial about the severity of this disease. Those who have been close to it know different, unfortunately.

My son's case was "mild"--no loss of oxygen saturation, no thought of going to a hospital. But the after-effects are real. He also had some traumatic experiences as a caregiver, seeing young and otherwise healthy people die of this without being able to help them.


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Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3037740 10/20/20 12:30 PM
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AZNPiano, Do you think as a piano teacher that you generally feel positive about your students? The way you describe and denigrate your students in this forum, I think it would be hard for your students’ parents to not pick up on your negative vibe.

Have you considered coming up with a written policy of how you are managing Covid in your studio and communicating that to the parents? That would help towards parents feeling more comfortable about in-person lessons.



Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3037836 10/20/20 07:23 PM
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"I don't have to "enthusiastically downplay the severity"" - then goes on to do just that.

I also don't have to "interpret science" - Ditto

smile




Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3037878 10/20/20 11:12 PM
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Even professional musicians are in lockdown mode. Some are making videos of themselves playing their parts and video clips would be combined into an ensemble. Others are performing in public venues without a live audience. Every member of the ensemble would be wearing a mask except for winds & brass players. We wouldn't see a full orchestra since everybody would maintain minimum distance of 3m or 6ft.


Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3038120 10/21/20 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
It is a mathematical certainty that you are more likely to contract COVID through community spread at Costco, then you are at a private piano lesson. But, unless you are immuno-compromised or above age 70, you should really continue with both activities as usual.

I'm glad you said, "as usual," because if it were up to me I would (almost) never go to Costco!
But I happily trundle off to my piano lesson.


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Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3038126 10/21/20 07:30 PM
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When it comes to shopping, unless we order things online and have home delivery, we still need to show up in places like Costco or Walmart. There are some things that I got online recently. We can order things off the Walmart website and have them delivered by mail. Even without going to a store, we still want to head out to a public park and see people. Being locked up at home like a prison is not healthy.

For piano lessons, the computer meeting through Skype or Zoom is an option. People who take violin or guitar are unlikely to share instruments. Unless the teacher has 2 pianos in the room, sharing the same keyboard is inevitable.

Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3038147 10/21/20 09:30 PM
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Piano for children is an extracurricular activity, just not important from many parents' perspective. Piano, soccer, chess club, they can quit anytime. From the piano teacher's perspective, it is work, income, important part of life. Parents are not putting off taking their kids to the dentist because that's essential. And I don't think parents are that fearful of covid because I see them take kids to the supermarket all the time. They just have piano at low priority.

Re: COVID-19 Excuse
AZNpiano #3038156 10/21/20 10:27 PM
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For someone like myself who have been playing piano for a while, I see the benefit of reducing stress and keeping my mind sharp as an adult. The question of supplementing a teacher's living expenses it's another matter I don't think about. Whether I'm having piano lessons once a week I'd still be practicing a song an hour a day. During the summer break when my teacher was away, I worked on 5 short pieces. An older adult knows when to turn the TV off. A child would likely spend more time in front of a computer or TV screen. The younger crowd need weekly lessons as an incentive to practice music.

When it comes to shopping, I know seniors in my area who would get friends or relatives to do their weekly groceries and drop the bags by the front door. The face to face conversation is a simple "thank you" & "you're welcome" speaking through each other's masks and the rest of the time by phone.

The last thing mentioned was going to a dentist. Depends on how severe the infection rate is in your area. I consider a doctor more essential than a dentist. Cleaning teeth isn't considered an essential service. In my area there was a lockdown a few months ago and people with medical emergencies including tooth aches were told to go to a hospital ER or a Walk-in clinic that opens during the day. Walk-in clinics are not as accessible since you have to discuss the problem on the phone and then make an appointment to go in. I know a few dentists who shut their clinics for a month or longer and reopened with a limit on how many patients they would see per day to prevent more than 5 people from gathering at a time. This is the limit enforced by our provincial government.

Re: COVID-19 Excuse
malkin #3038161 10/21/20 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
It is a mathematical certainty that you are more likely to contract COVID through community spread at Costco, then you are at a private piano lesson. But, unless you are immuno-compromised or above age 70, you should really continue with both activities as usual.

I'm glad you said, "as usual," because if it were up to me I would (almost) never go to Costco!
But I happily trundle off to my piano lesson.

Ha! I just used Costco as an example. To be honest, I haven't been to Costco since the whole "pandemic" started. I prefer to shop at the smaller, local supermarkets instead of battling 200 paranoid people at Costco over a bundle of toilet paper. The Costco by my house has a line that goes around the building JUST TO GET IN.


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