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Originally Posted by piano411
Originally Posted by michaelopolis
Would take a lot more than those 2 studies to convince me.
And, what is the likelihood that you will get very many more of these studies? Assuming that it is true that music can be used for helping humanity, either spiritually or physically. There is no money in it. There is no power and control in it. I think it is a safe bet that not much will ever come of it. It’s just the way the world works.

I have yet to see a plausible mechanism explaining how 432hz tuning could be more beneficial to human ears and a peaceful state of mind.

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People get tuned. They are tuned by their experience of music. Some people can be tuned more exactly than others. Someone who has become tuned to A-440 and is sufficiently tunable will be disquieted by the same music which is far enough from A-440. I experience this myself. Other people I have known experience it even more acutely than I.


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Originally Posted by michaelopolis
I have yet to see a plausible mechanism explaining how 432hz tuning could be more beneficial to human ears and a peaceful state of mind.

The theory doesn’t really have to do with the ears. There seems to be a small effect if you use ear buds, as the brain naturally syncs up with sound.

But, that is not the crux of the theory. It has more to do with vibrations. Like, if you are in a cathedral listening to the organ. Yeah, you do hear it, but there is so much more vibrational energy, that it is something that you feel more than you hear. The theory has to do with resonance, not sound.

It has been suggested that the 432 pitch level helps a person physically open the different chakras. Chakras are energy gateways. When the gateways are physically vibrated, they can open up and allow energy to flow more freely throughout the body. The energy that flows through the body is the person’s connection with their spirituality, their spirit body, or the energy body. There are billions of people that practice this in various ways through yoga and martial arts. It’s not religious. It is exercise using the mind, body, and spirit - the energy moving through the body.

That is the mechanism. Again, I’m not saying that 432 is the “right” one. Maybe, maybe not. If you have not ever focused on your breathe through meditation, opening your energy centers through something like yoga, or moved energy through the meridians like in chi gong, you are unlikely to have any concept on how this could be possible.

It is said that the 440 is more destructive, agitates the mind, and closes the flow of energy through the chakras. It could be the 432 is least destructive. Not, that it does something magical or is closer to nature, or whatever.

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Chakras have never been proven to exist. Its just a belief at this point.

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Originally Posted by michaelopolis
Chakras have never been proven to exist. Its just a belief at this point.
Like I said, if you don’t have any experience using them, then they probably don’t exist to you. But, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist or they are not real. There are many ways to experience chakras. There are billions of people that experience them everyday.

It is similar to a sense of balance. Some people have very bad body awareness. But, a person’s sense of balance is a real thing, and it is an awareness that can be developed. And, in doing do, you become aware of major balance points (aka chakras). The awareness of chakras is a sense.

If you every go to the gym, try using chest press and focus on what your body is doing and how the energy is flowing to do that work. The center balance point of all that work and energy movement is the heart chakra. If your form is off, you will feel it at this energy center.

It is not a belief, it is a physical awareness of how energy moves through the body. If you are not aware of how energy moves through your body, then you have no way of observing how different pitch levels effect your body and mind.

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Originally Posted by piano411
Originally Posted by michaelopolis
Chakras have never been proven to exist. Its just a belief at this point.
Like I said, if you don’t have any experience using them, then they probably don’t exist to you. But, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist or they are not real. There are many ways to experience chakras. There are billions of people that experience them everyday.

It is similar to a sense of balance. Some people have very bad body awareness. But, a person’s sense of balance is a real thing, and it is an awareness that can be developed. And, in doing do, you become aware of major balance points (aka chakras). The awareness of chakras is a sense.

If you every go to the gym, try using chest press and focus on what your body is doing and how the energy is flowing to do that work. The center balance point of all that work and energy movement is the heart chakra. If your form is off, you will feel it at this energy center.

It is not a belief, it is a physical awareness of how energy moves through the body. If you are not aware of how energy moves through your body, then you have no way of observing how different pitch levels effect your body and mind.

So your saying that chakras is just a self-awareness of your body like top boxers or athletes that would be highly aware of their bodies kinetic motion in performance ?

BDB described above how people get tuned to A440 and I'd agree with that. I'd also add that certain sounds really grate on my nerves. Is that what you mean by observing pitch levels and their effects ?

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Originally Posted by michaelopolis
So your saying that chakras is just a self-awareness of your body like top boxers or athletes that would be highly aware of their bodies kinetic motion in performance ?

For sure, a top boxer will be aware of their "dantian" or the "scral chakra." This is the center of the body in the lower abdomen. This is a boxer's core energy center from which they hit someone. They will literally hit someone from this point in the body, which radiates from the feet and out through the hands. Someone who is not professional usually just swings from the upper body or the arms. They don't have their "core" engaged, and their energy isn't grounded. A ballerina, on the other hand, uses more of the heart and throat chakra in their everyday practice of moving around. They don't want to be grounded, they want to be uplifted.

So, yes, it is a self awareness of the different body centers. Once you are at a very high level of awareness in performance, you will obviously notice very subtle differences in energy qualities. Another way of describing this is muscle memory. The way that the energy moves through the body and the center points, creates our sense of muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by michaelopolis
BDB described above how people get tuned to A440 and I'd agree with that. I'd also add that certain sounds really grate on my nerves. Is that what you mean by observing pitch levels and their effects ?
Well, sure, at some level, yes. But, it is more complicated in that I think it also has an effect on physical performance and a mental state of mind.

People are tuned to 440 in these modern times. Our electricity is usually 110 or 220, which is also the 440 pitch level. Basically everything we plug in will vibrate at what we are calling the 440 pitch level. All of the advertisement jingles are at 440. There is a reason for that. It's not arbitrary.

So, yeah, anything that is not 440, will cause a response initially. For those that are sensitive, it is not a good response. But, in time, you get used to it. I hated 432 the first time I tuned it. It made me want to puke. Every time I heard those side by side comparisons, I disliked the lower pitch every time. I have a lot more experience now and can experience it differently.

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Originally Posted by piano411
Originally Posted by michaelopolis
So your saying that chakras is just a self-awareness of your body like top boxers or athletes that would be highly aware of their bodies kinetic motion in performance ?

For sure, a top boxer will be aware of their "dantian" or the "scral chakra." This is the center of the body in the lower abdomen. This is a boxer's core energy center from which they hit someone. They will literally hit someone from this point in the body, which radiates from the feet and out through the hands. Someone who is not professional usually just swings from the upper body or the arms. They don't have their "core" engaged, and their energy isn't grounded. A ballerina, on the other hand, uses more of the heart and throat chakra in their everyday practice of moving around. They don't want to be grounded, they want to be uplifted.

So, yes, it is a self awareness of the different body centers. Once you are at a very high level of awareness in performance, you will obviously notice very subtle differences in energy qualities. Another way of describing this is muscle memory. The way that the energy moves through the body and the center points, creates our sense of muscle memory.

Thanks. Interesting and illuminating .

Isn't it just confusing then to use concepts like "scral chakra" or "heart chakra" in the western world if all it means is self awareness of core strength and balance etc etc ?

When you use the word "energy" you mean kinetic energy and self awareness of how it feels ?

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Electricity is neither 110 nor 220; it is 60 in North America and 50 in Europe, except that the computer that I am writing this on is 1700000000.


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Originally Posted by piano411
Originally Posted by michaelopolis
BDB described above how people get tuned to A440 and I'd agree with that. I'd also add that certain sounds really grate on my nerves. Is that what you mean by observing pitch levels and their effects ?
Well, sure, at some level, yes. But, it is more complicated in that I think it also has an effect on physical performance and a mental state of mind.

People are tuned to 440 in these modern times. Our electricity is usually 110 or 220, which is also the 440 pitch level. Basically everything we plug in will vibrate at what we are calling the 440 pitch level. All of the advertisement jingles are at 440. There is a reason for that. It's not arbitrary.

So, yeah, anything that is not 440, will cause a response initially. For those that are sensitive, it is not a good response. But, in time, you get used to it. I hated 432 the first time I tuned it. It made me want to puke. Every time I heard those side by side comparisons, I disliked the lower pitch every time. I have a lot more experience now and can experience it differently.

I don't know what you mean by "everything we plug in will vibrate at 440 level". When I plug my shaver or kettle into the wall I can somehow detect the note A440 from these devices ?

As a tuner I really like the sound of pianos at A440. But as a music lover when I listen to someone playing a piece of music on a piano I really don't care if its above or below A440. Its the Melody, Rhythm, Timbre, artistic meaning etc etc are way more important in making me feel good or not. I've probably listened to lots of music not at A440 so its no big deal to me where the pitch is at.

Last edited by michaelopolis; 10/09/20 09:27 PM.
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Sure, it is all very confusing and difficult to explain. I’m still learning what this is all about for myself.

I’m sure there is a a much better way to explain this in terms that the western world can understand. But, we don’t really have a deep cultural understanding and communal means of describing the movement of energy within the body. Boxers and ballerinas have some movements that overlap, but there is not so much they can commonly talk about.

In contrast, India and China went balls deep into developing practices wherein which everyone can learn to experience the same chakras and energy channels. It is the same thing, just expressed differently.

I shouldn’t have brought up the electricity, because it is the resonance of the voltage that matters, not the sound of the frequency. Anyway, electricity is an external source, so it gets further away from the internal topic at hand. It is already too complicated.

In summary, Buddhism and Taoism went to great lengths to describe energy centers and how energy moves through the body. They both came up with body movements, and means of vibrating the body to clear channels and centers.

Long story short, that is the mechanism by which different pitch levels can effect the body. It is not just sound. It is resonance and how the energy moves through the body.

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Resonance of the voltage?


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Originally Posted by piano411
I shouldn’t have brought up the electricity, because it is the resonance of the voltage that matters, not the sound of the frequency.

This is utter nonsense.

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Originally Posted by BDB
People get tuned. They are tuned by their experience of music. Some people can be tuned more exactly than others. Someone who has become tuned to A-440 and is sufficiently tunable will be disquieted by the same music which is far enough from A-440. I experience this myself. Other people I have known experience it even more acutely than I.
I think BDB brings up a really good point. With so many American families owning those little Betsy Ross spinet that gets tuned every decade at most, average people in this country must be more attuned to pianos that are 30 or so cents flat, hence a familiar, comforting pitch at 432Hz???

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Im just a beginner at learning about this stuff, but I can imagine, if you have never read anything about subjects like this it all sounds like a bunch of nonsense.

Maybe it is a good starting point to realize that litteraly everything is energy. You and I, your chair, your pc, everything. When we look at things and ourselves, we see solid forms. But, if we look at things or ourselves through a microscope, all we see is moving energy vibrating at a certain frequency. You know what, it's too hard to explain for me, and I probably will only make it sound like more nonsense. Here's a random google result about this:

https://www.collective-evolution.co...thing-is-solid-and-everything-is-energy/

Quite interesting stuff if you ask me.

It might provide a better insight on why people are wondering about things like tuning to 432hz.

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Originally Posted by U3piano
Im just a beginner at learning about this stuff, but I can imagine, if you have never read anything about subjects like this it all sounds like a bunch of nonsense.

Maybe it is a good starting point to realize that litteraly everything is energy. You and I, your chair, your pc, everything. When we look at things and ourselves, we see solid forms. But, if we look at things or ourselves through a microscope, all we see is moving energy vibrating at a certain frequency. You know what, it's too hard to explain for me, and I probably will only make it sound like more nonsense. Here's a random google result about this:

https://www.collective-evolution.co...thing-is-solid-and-everything-is-energy/

Quite interesting stuff if you ask me.

It might provide a better insight on why people are wondering about things like tuning to 432hz.
Not discounting anything being discussed here but the article you refer to contains the sentence "If you observed the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small, invisible tornado-like vortex..."
Can you observe an invisible anything? It's no wonder that talking about this sort of thing is difficult!
Nick


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Originally Posted by N W
Not discounting anything being discussed here but the article you refer to contains the sentence "If you observed the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small, invisible tornado-like vortex..."
Can you observe an invisible anything? It's no wonder that talking about this sort of thing is difficult!
Nick

Yes that sentence is kinda questionable to me as well, but I suspect they just didn't describe it in the best way possible. There are many articles about the subject, others might explain it better.

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Originally Posted by N W
Not discounting anything being discussed here but the article you refer to contains the sentence "If you observed the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small, invisible tornado-like vortex..."

And we all radiate "our own unique energy signature."

Typical scientifically illiterate New Age nonsense.

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Originally Posted by johnstaf
And we all radiate "our own unique energy signature."
Typical scientifically illiterate New Age nonsense.

That’s not true al all. People do radiate unique energy signatures. While it might be difficult to describe exactly what we are picking up on, people do emit a lot of information that radiates through their bodies, and even their words online. People can obtain from a great distance the kinds of individuals they should stay clear of or the ones they could potentially interact with to produce a positive outcome. Children and dogs generally have a good sense of this.

People’s negative feelings and emotional baggage will effect the people around them if the people around them don’t have a coping mechanism to block that disgusting energy signature.

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