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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Kawai James #3033682 10/09/20 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Pete14
You might be confused about the N3X; it was released almost 5 years ago and not ‘three years ago’.

4 years ago, and without a touchscreen.

Good effort, though. laugh

blush

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
propianist #3033685 10/09/20 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by propianist
VPC 2 with Millennium III Grand action = ?????

For me that's absolutely the big gap in the current DP/controller offering. I don't care about sounds, speakers, cabinet, even damper mechanism. The NV10's action suffices for me (and yeah obviously all the electronics for outputting MIDI ;)). Would there be a market for it? Depends how it would be priced compared to the VPC1 and the NV10 (I know, that's an impressive price range :D).


Estonia L190, Kawai VPC1, Casio AP-450
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
propianist #3033688 10/09/20 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by propianist
Kawai Novus NV10 = £8099

VPC 2 with Millennium III Grand action = ?????

Kawai VPC1 = £1190


Hi James,
If you had to make a wild guess, how much do you think a slab style VPC2 with Millennium III Grand action might retail for?
Gotta be somewhere inbetween the two??? Maybe under £4000...?
No speakers or amplification, no onboard sounds, no fancy touchscreen, no legs / large cabinet, just minimalist black metal slab case with USB and MIDI out.

I don't think this could ever happen. The Millenium III Grand action, even without the back action (damper) will be huge in size and weight. There is no way that it can fit in a slab-style case. You are asking for a truck engine to be put in a motorcycle.

So let's assume you made a typo and you want a VPC-2 with Millenium III Grand action in a NV-10 like case, just without piano speakers and sound (and without touchscreen, ROTFL). Let's assume you also want the back action (dampers), and pedals since it is generally recognized as being very nice to have.

I have no idea how much Kawai could charge for that, but I can tell that a piano technician could assemble it from replacement parts (if Kawai would sell the technician that many). In such a way, it would cost not less than $8000 (6200 British pounds), excluding the sensors and the cabinets. Put it at least $1000 for each of them and here you have the price if the NV-10. Because of economy of scale, it would make absolutely zero sense for Kawai to release such an instrument. Who will buy it? Just a fraction of people who would buy the NV-10, which they can buy today. So if they make it, now they have two instruments to design, produce, market, ship, support in warranty. Lots of overhead, probably enough to make the price of both the NV-10 and of this hypotetical VPC-2 higher than current price of the NV-10.

Just get an NV-10 and be done with it. Is it too large? Well, get over it: a motorcycle will never be a truck, despite what some people think..
Is it too expensive? Get a Cybrid with a golden era action and cabinet

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Del Vento #3033696 10/09/20 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Del Vento
[You are asking for a truck engine to be put in a motorcycle.

I think it's apropos that the 8.3L V-10 Viper powered Dodge Tomahawk actually existed!
[Linked Image]

Here's the thing. Such a VPC would be exactly the same thing--a novelty, a mashup of wild extremes built solely as fan service and ignoring the realities of economics. In a world where the DG-30 retails for over $5k, people are asking if it's realistic to squeeze a grand action keyboard for $3k? If only...


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
propianist #3033708 10/09/20 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by propianist
If you had to make a wild guess, how much do you think a slab style VPC2 with Millennium III Grand action might retail for?
Gotta be somewhere inbetween the two??? Maybe under £4000...?

I would guess £5,000+. Acoustic grand piano actions and quality keysets are expensive. Also it would be enormous and weigh a lot, all of which won’t work well in a slab format.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3033712 10/09/20 08:04 AM
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Perhaps the 8.3L V-10 Viper powered VPC-1 isn’t such a bad idea:

1. Ship an NV-10 to Ravenworks.

2. The action is extracted by Raven and everything else is discarded (speakers, cabinet, dampers, etc...)

3. Raven retrofits the nekid action into a modified VPC-1 chassis (slightly deeper cabinet, etc..), and adds relevant midi/electronic components (sound card will cost you a little more).

4. The instrument is shipped back to you.

5. place the beast on a heavy duty X-stand, and you’re good to go.


All for a little under $20,000!



P.S.


I say go for it!

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Gombessa #3033713 10/09/20 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Del Vento
[You are asking for a truck engine to be put in a motorcycle.

I think it's apropos that the 8.3L V-10 Viper powered Dodge Tomahawk actually existed!
[Linked Image]

Here's the thing. Such a VPC would be exactly the same thing--a novelty, a mashup of wild extremes built solely as fan service and ignoring the realities of economics. In a world where the DG-30 retails for over $5k, people are asking if it's realistic to squeeze a grand action keyboard for $3k? If only...

Of course I totally agree. And I would stress that the motorcycle enthusiast community is larger than the piano enthusiast community, so some wild experiments can still be done at the break even price point. On the piano, such experiments will be at a loss for the producing company.

Realistically, should Kawai ever make a VPC-2, it will have at most the GFC action, not the Millenium Upright, let alone the even larger and heavier Millenium Grand.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Kawai James #3033740 10/09/20 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
No pedals?
I don't think you can have a real acoustic piano action without also including the damper pedal mechanism.

Kind regards,
James
x

Did James just throw some shade on the N1X? whistle


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
David B #3033743 10/09/20 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by David B
Did James just throw some shade on the N1X? whistle

It's indeed a spicy morning for the NV-10 club.

I can hear the sostenuto mechanism gang sharpening their pitchforks off in the distance wink


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3033745 10/09/20 09:16 AM
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shocked



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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3033746 10/09/20 09:19 AM
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How about a una corda mechanism? How can you have a real acoustic grand action without the keybed sliding to the right?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3033755 10/09/20 09:31 AM
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Just because James is likely signing off for the weekend in Japan, I don't think he was talking about the Real Damper Mechanism(TM) unique to the Novus line. I think he just meant that a pedal system was conspicuously left off the list of barebones requirements for a hypothetical VPC-Millennium controller.

Otherwise he would have been throwing shade on ALL other DPs out there, including Kawai's other products too wink


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Gombessa #3033764 10/09/20 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
In a world where the DG-30 retails for over $5k, people are asking if it's realistic to squeeze a grand action keyboard for $3k? If only...
🤣
Sad but true 😕


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3033782 10/09/20 10:29 AM
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A grand action VPC? I'd like one.
Is there a market for this? I doubt it.

It's not about price. It's about demand.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
CyberGene #3033793 10/09/20 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
If I play test and compare a hybrid piano A versus piano B and determine that piano A is 1% better (in terms of piano touch/sound) than piano B, no fancy touch screen on earth will make me purchase the piano B. Again, not saying N1X is better than NV10, and different people may have different preferences as to what is “better”.

I agree. My first priority would be the action.

Piano A = Great Action.
Piano B = Same great action, so many features, much more expensive
I go with Piano A

Piano A = Great Action, so many features.
Piano B = 10% better action, no features.
I go with Piano B

All the fancy features can be compensated by external software and speaker systems. So for sure the action is the most important factor to me, followed by the cost of the instrument.

Maybe a concert pianist (artist) would never use these features, as they play a specific genre of music and they try to simulate the same specific playing and listening environment every single time. However, I like switching between Pop Grand Piano, Shigeru Kawai, and sometimes dual sounds when I am playing. It depends on what setting make the specific song I am playing sound better to me, and maybe closer to the same mood and emotions of the original record. It’s nice to do this from an easy interface. If I had to look at the user manual to do it, I would just keep it on one nice sound and never bother to change it.

I owned the Casio AP470 for 2 years, I never used it’s metronome or any nice features, because it’s basic interface was inconvenient.

If I am not mistaken, I believe the Avantgrand can a have fancy interface if you connect the iPad app.

Last edited by Seif Maher; 10/09/20 10:42 AM.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3033794 10/09/20 10:40 AM
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It wouldn't be portable by less than two people. cursing



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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
MacMacMac #3033807 10/09/20 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
A grand action VPC? I'd like one.
Is there a market for this? I doubt it.

It's not about price. It's about demand.

There is demand, otherwise this would not be a recurring topic. The question is to which extent.

At the same price, I'd choose such a controller over a NV5 without a doubt (if I had the bucks wink ) Where I think there could be demand is among professional pianists and demanding amateurs who want uncompromised touch and sound, and are not reluctant to setting up external speakers (or just want to practice through headphones) and using best-in-class piano VIs. Why then pay the extra for internal speakers and on-board sounds if you end up using your piano that way?

Who thought there would be a market for the VPC1? If portability is a criteria then true, such a controller wouldn't fit the bill. Actually whether the VPC1 or the MP11 are really portable is debatable.


Estonia L190, Kawai VPC1, Casio AP-450
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3033810 10/09/20 11:30 AM
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This forum is a bit of a filter bubble. If there's a recurring request here, this represents 0.1% of the average piano crowd 😛 For instance, the Kawai distributor in Bulgaria said nobody has ordered or even been interested (besides me) in NV10. He's mostly selling entry-level Kawai DP-s, and much less CA-pianos compared to that. Well, yeah, we're not a very rich country after all, so hardly representative of the piano market but still.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
floknot #3033818 10/09/20 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by floknot
Who thought there would be a market for the VPC1?

Heh, I actually wonder about what the market for the VPC-1 is...I've always thought it is an extremely niche product, good enough to not cancel (and keep an entire production line for an obsolete action running), but not enough to warrant spending resources on a new version (with a presumably easy drop-in replacements of GFC action and new 3-pedal system).

But the VPC-1 is clearly within the price range of slab keyboards, digital pianos, and MIDI controllers generally. It's a few hundreds more than an A-88, falls between premium slabs like the P-515, CP-88, MP11 and RD-2000, and more or less matches general expectations for what a weighted keyboard should cost. A huge grand action controller? You're targeting a small subsection of an already small population of extreme purists who care supremely about only one thing, and not at all about practically anything else. That's a niche of a niche....


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3033820 10/09/20 11:46 AM
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Are you valuating our requests at 0.1%?

And here I thought we were making a difference; only to find out that our onions are worth close to nothing.

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