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Re: torque wrench test on the piano pin polluted by WD40
Harry Dane #3026398 09/18/20 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Harry Dane
i m too funny

Not really.

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Re: torque wrench test on the piano pin polluted by WD40
Harry Dane #3026497 09/18/20 04:54 PM
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Try not to worry too much about your piano other than the sound. If you like the way it sounds I think that should be sufficient. Your issue with WD40 cannot be reversed and only time can tell if the pins have been ruined. Which I think they are fine based on what you observed

Last edited by hydrodog; 09/18/20 04:54 PM.
Re: torque wrench test on the piano pin polluted by WD40
hydrodog #3026550 09/18/20 07:52 PM
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yep,It is just because it is a fine instrument which sounds amazing.
If that was just "OK" on its sound,i wouldnt have taken so much effort to test and question.

someone told me dont ever believe pianos are fragile.
they cant be ruined even you are casually doing maintenance .

I know the humidity level should be 40% .but this summer was way too hot.
So i always,controlled it at 62%.to prevent wood dry out.

but sadly, my piano strings ,Roslau strings rusted abit .
some rust occurred near the hitch pin.

I contacted with my piano techician ,he said he is busy and let me wait for some period.

that is why i decided to DIY,and when questioning if Wd40 is appropriate, i got a "aYes"

probably Roslau strings are easy ruined with humidity?60% humidity level is good for my piano wood parts when the temperature at 28"C.
strings domt like that wet.
it is a contradiction.

Re: torque wrench test on the piano pin polluted by WD40
WBLynch #3026561 09/18/20 09:18 PM
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Hi WB,

Plz allow me to share my thought.^^ i m not a professor ,welcome you to correct me if i mistook some concept.

The jumping pins make tuning a piano hard.
Though with piano technician,they might still have those issues though they are experienced at tuning.

In my perspective,the Static friction are maximized for the jumping moment.
After that ,it become lower.But the force put on tuning hammer is still there.
So that accelerate the hammer to rotate,make it" jump" .

Some tuners are well skilled at making their tuning stable.usually they tune it sharp first,then rotate hammer back a little,which definitely maximize the Static friction.
but for the amateur like me,sometimes i tune some keys too casually, the Static friction is not fully maximized or i can say "the pin is set in a position in between.

Also there is another way to demonstrate it.
when restring a piano,usually need a pitch raise .new strings are more flexible but i believe pitch raise also helps to maximize the Static friction.

(i owned a upright piano!
for some reasons, i loose one of its the treble wire a lot to correct the unbalanced distance among those 3 wires.When i tried to tune it back to the right pitch,every time i tried ,it moved back. Can i say that pin is too loose?not exactly.I pulled it harder and heard a jumping sound.then twisted it back a little to the right pitch. it worked,never moved back.
i do believe if i took a measurement at that time, the testing result must be really low at first,because its pitch was going down automatically. Then it should be normal,because i solved the "loosen" pin then)

This is my past experience.

What i think it is appropriate to test with torque wrench for the pin set in the appropriate position.It will critically effect the result.

if you research on Youtube(yes,informations for piano are inadequate even not correct), some uploader did their measurement in clockwise direction which has been doubted by some viewers.

I prefer to test it in counterclockwise direction.


if possible , you may test what i found on your piano(if you aren't worrying about damaging it^^) .


Both" (pitch-up +pich-down) / 2" could differ,i mean both the clockwise and counterclockwise reading ,depending on if your pin is set in position.

Tune sharp then normal ,this method you will get a higher figure.

(pitch-up+pitch-down)/2=Static friction on that certain point, in my perspective.

Hope i state everything clear enough,that is just my thought.
Some of you guys definitely know more in pianos,i just a freshman questioning why always.

A funny man,
Harry

Re: torque wrench test on the piano pin polluted by WD40
Harry Dane #3026991 09/20/20 12:35 AM
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Since the pin seems to be holding ok at the moment, stop worrying! Some pins get loose sooner than others from normal wear so that pin might have been ever slightly looser and it’s neighbors in a first place. I would be more concerned about your excessive checking, turning, and tuning of that pin to enlarge or burnish the hole. Most technicians don’t measure precise torque on a regular basis and leave things alone until things become problematic. If the note sounds in tune by listening, it should be fine for now. And I recommend you keep the bushings untouched.

Re: torque wrench test on the piano pin polluted by WD40
K8KT #3027184 09/20/20 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by K8KT
Since the pin seems to be holding ok at the moment, stop worrying! Some pins get loose sooner than others from normal wear so that pin might have been ever slightly looser and it’s neighbors in a first place. I would be more concerned about your excessive checking, turning, and tuning of that pin to enlarge or burnish the hole. Most technicians don’t measure precise torque on a regular basis and leave things alone until things become problematic. If the note sounds in tune by listening, it should be fine for now. And I recommend you keep the bushings untouched.

^^ got it,
i ll follow your tips.
Thank you very much :v

Re: torque wrench test on the piano pin polluted by WD40
Harry Dane #3033274 10/08/20 05:57 AM
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If the WD40 didn't kill it, constantly testing and turning the pins will damage it for sure.

My recommendation?

Leave it alone.

Re: torque wrench test on the piano pin polluted by WD40
Steve Jackson #3033300 10/08/20 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson
If the WD40 didn't kill it, constantly testing and turning the pins will damage it for sure.

My recommendation?

Leave it alone.
thumb


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: torque wrench test on the piano pin polluted by WD40
Emery Wang #3033511 10/08/20 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Brief thread hijack: on a 90 year old upright, if pinblock is not cracked and old pins were holding tune, Reblitz recommends replacing with tuning pins one size larger. Is that still the conventional wisdom?

Thanks.

Forgive me for asking what may be a silly question. If the pinblock is not cracked, and the pins are holding, is this not a satisfactory situation? Why should the pins be replaced by larger ones?

Re: torque wrench test on the piano pin polluted by WD40
David-G #3033517 10/08/20 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by David-G
Why should the pins be replaced by larger ones?

The design of the piano stringing and pinblock is such that the tuning pins are intended to be replaced to correct for inconsistencies. We want consistent feel at the tuning pin. Since pinblocks don’t wear out evenly, and sometimes things happen, we end up using many different size of pins in the same piano. There is a small range of vertical adjustment that can be made, but other than that, there are three lengths of pins, and 4-5 commonly used thickness. We are told not to ream out and enlarge the holes to extend the overall life of the pinblock.

Conventional wisdom is to go up two sizes when the pin is loose. That doesn’t mean two thickness sizes, it means going up in the progression of pins lengths and thicknesses.


piano tuner
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