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Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
Kawai James #3032968 10/07/20 05:40 AM
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Wait ... aren't **you** the ukelele salesman?
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Damn, there goes my commission! (joke)
I'm going to kj.com right now. I hope you offer free shipping.

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Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3032973 10/07/20 05:56 AM
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As I've mentioned in other threads, broaden your choices and don't just follow the "herd" because Yamaha and Kawai are the top mentioned brands on this forum. In this price range, you can often find great cost-effective pianos from other brands like Roland, Casio and Korg.

Have you checked the PianoDreamers website? They have some good fair reviews for the pianos in this price range.

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
Beowulf #3032975 10/07/20 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Beowulf
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think I can afford one of those (so-called) hybrids.
IMO, even the sound coming out from the AvantGrand cannot be compared to the lowest end of upright pianos from Yamaha and Kawai.

That only shows how good those low-end upright pianos have become.

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It's a shame these acoustics are not something I can play at midnight and beyond without being a nuisance.

Well, that's true with any acoustic instrument.

It's also a cultural thing: In America we have people converting saloon grands into digital pianos to jazz around (the only thing digital pianos are really good for), while in Asia we have people cramming a baby grand into the smallest apartment, so they can get some classical practice in while at home.

Europe is somewhere in the middle with upright pianos being most popular.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
JoeT #3032981 10/07/20 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
It's also a cultural thing: In America we have people converting saloon grands into digital pianos to jazz around (the only thing digital pianos are really good for), while in Asia we have people cramming a baby grand into the smallest apartment, so they can get some classical practice in while at home.

Europe is somewhere in the middle with upright pianos being most popular.

Space is cheaper in America -relative to income-.

Cramming big pianos into small apartments isn't the culture, it's due to limited options.

The other huge problem like in China, Everything is concrete. And people love tile flooring. Honestly, Pianos in most homes in this country sound awful.

Last edited by jeffcat; 10/07/20 06:24 AM.
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
jeffcat #3032983 10/07/20 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Space is cheaper in America -relative to income-.

Cramming big pianos into small apartments isn't the culture, it's due to limited options.

I think you misunderstood my post. The culture influences what music is being played and that affects choice of instrument without actually taking living space into account. It's quite the opposite.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3032994 10/07/20 07:00 AM
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Your friend should just get whatever he / she likes the best - IMO they are all pretty much comparable.
If your friend wants to use computer / ipad software for learning then the P-125 has a very convenient feature - it has a built in audio interface so the sound from the ipad or computer can easily be routed through the piano - this is somewhat rare in digital pianos outside of Yamahas range.

I currently have a P125 in my office and a lovely old acoustic at home. The P125 is fine for what it is and would have suited me very well for my first year of playing. The build quaility seem very good and the sounds are well above average in my experience - at least through headphones which is all I use at the office.

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
Morten Olsson #3033002 10/07/20 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
If your friend wants to use computer / ipad software for learning then the P-125 has a very convenient feature - it has a built in audio interface so the sound from the ipad or computer can easily be routed through the piano - this is somewhat rare in digital pianos outside of Yamahas range.
Android tablets/phones now also work fine with Smart Pianist (previously it only supported iOS).


Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
karoloydi #3033092 10/07/20 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by karoloydi
Also, if you are planning to use p-125 with your PC, like with pianoteq, it is not a good idea. The very low and very high velocity values are missing.

That problem is common to lots of DP's, from all makers.

Pianoteq lets you set up a "velocity curve", to compensate for the missing high and low "MIDI velocity" values. There's a whole section of the Pianoteq user forum devoted to that issue.

My PX-350 has the same issue; a custom velocity curve (in Pianoteq) corrects it nicely.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
JoeT #3033101 10/07/20 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
And no, you don't learn piano by using an app. Just to get that out of the way as well.

Another opinion, stated as a fact.

Of course you can learn piano by using an app. You can even learn without an app, I did. It all depends on your goal. Is your goal to be professional? In that case you're probably right, and you can't do without a teacher

Here's how far I got in a couple of years without a teacher, without an app, without learning to read scores. Just me and youtube, and mostly a (not too great) digital piano, a Yamaha cp33:

https://vimeo.com/437594050

It is my first performance in front of people ever. Of course I understand, someone that learned piano the traditional way probably immediatly spots all the bad technique I'm using. (please keep in mind I was very nervous and also never touched that Steinway before as well). But my point is, you can learn to play piano, however you like to do it.

Don't get me wrong. I do think the traditional way (teacher from the start etc.) Is probably best by far, but people might want to do it their own way for all kinds of reasons. I have noticed some people that are of the traditional ways seem to have some problems with accepting that.

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
U3piano #3033106 10/07/20 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by JoeT
And no, you don't learn piano by using an app. Just to get that out of the way as well.

Another opinion, stated as a fact.

Because it is a fact.

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Of course you can learn piano by using an app.

No.

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It is my first performance in front of people ever. Of course I understand, someone that learned piano the traditional way probably immediatly spots all the bad technique I'm using.

Indeed, you didn't learn to play piano. Anyone can hit keys on a Steinway. And some people can do it properly. The latter learned to play piano. By definition.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
JoeT #3033108 10/07/20 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Indeed, you didn't learn to play piano. Anyone can hit keys on a Steinway. And some people can do it properly. The latter learned to play piano. By definition.

ok, JoeT.

I guess anyone can hit keys on a Steinway..

Actually I don't really let myself get into negative discussion normally, but you truly seem to mistake your opinions for facts every time you post something, and like I said I think this can be misleading for beginners, newcomers etc. That's my issue with these posts.

You don't hold the absolute truth JoeT, I don't either, let our opinions be just that, opinions.

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
JoeT #3033119 10/07/20 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by U3piano
It is my first performance in front of people ever. Of course I understand, someone that learned piano the traditional way probably immediatly spots all the bad technique I'm using.

Indeed, you didn't learn to play piano. Anyone can hit keys on a Steinway. And some people can do it properly. The latter learned to play piano. By definition.

I think you're being way out of line, JoeT.


Kawai Novus NV10; Yamaha P-515

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Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3033121 10/07/20 01:42 PM
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@U3piano: I saw your video and I think you should try to play more dynamically with your left hand. For us beginners without a teacher it is very difficult to achieve that (i.e. playing ppp/pp with left hand, mf/f with the right), but if you are conscious of this, you can exercise more on this aspect and reach good results. Unfortunately, many digital pianos make harder to learn this, because they have imperfect velocity curves, very few timbral variations, inferior actions, etc... But nevertheless it is worth trying! wink

@JoeT: as usual, you are always so kind with people! laugh

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
magicpiano #3033130 10/07/20 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by magicpiano
@U3piano: I saw your video and I think you should try to play more dynamically with your left hand. For us beginners without a teacher it is very difficult to achieve that (i.e. playing ppp/pp with left hand, mf/f with the right), but if you are conscious of this, you can exercise more on this aspect and reach good results.

Or in other words: Learn to play the piano. wink

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@JoeT: as usual, you are always so kind with people! laugh

If you dish it out, you have to be able to take it. If anything that video just confirms what I said about how well learning the piano using an app goes. That was actually just meant as a random remark, I didn't realize that I hit bullseye by accident. Well, still sets the experience into context.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
magicpiano #3033160 10/07/20 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by magicpiano
@U3piano: I saw your video and I think you should try to play more dynamically with your left hand. For us beginners without a teacher it is very difficult to achieve that (i.e. playing ppp/pp with left hand, mf/f with the right), but if you are conscious of this, you can exercise more on this aspect and reach good results. Unfortunately, many digital pianos make harder to learn this, because they have imperfect velocity curves, very few timbral variations, inferior actions, etc... But nevertheless it is worth trying! wink

I think you are right, thanks for the advice. I'm still having fun improving every day!

Originally Posted by JoeT
If anything that video just confirms what I said about how well learning the piano using an app goes.

I think my video proves my point perfectly, which is that you can learn to play piano, with or without a teacher, with or without an app. I never said I was using correct technique or that i'm a great player, but the fact you call it "just hitting keys" or "not playing piano", well.. that's just not true. The fact is I am definitly playing piano. You don't have to be Nadal to play a fairly decent amateur tennis game that people can watch and enjoy, and guess what, it's actually still called tennis! smile

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3033168 10/07/20 03:31 PM
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@ JoeT, where is this anger coming from ? LOLOL

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3033182 10/07/20 04:16 PM
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I haven't played the ES110 but was pleased with the P125 I owned before I bought an acoustic. The action is OK and has the usual limitations of a mid-line digital but is sufficient for a beginner. The P125 also had a great pipe organ sound.

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
U3piano #3033254 10/08/20 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
@ JoeT, where is this anger coming from ? LOLOL

Someone continuously trying to police what I'm allowed to post (not only on this thread) as if he was appointed moderator provoked a reaction. I didn't intend it to go this way.

Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by JoeT
If anything that video just confirms what I said about how well learning the piano using an app goes.

I think my video proves my point perfectly, which is that you can learn to play piano, with or without a teacher, with or without an app. I never said I was using correct technique or that i'm a great player, but the fact you call it "just hitting keys" or "not playing piano", well.. that's just not true. The fact is I am definitly playing piano.

You have your own warped definition of "learning to play the piano", this obviously is also the reason, why you're constantly upset with someone stating "opinion as fact" (as if not everything posted on a forum is opinion anyway). Where I come from learning an art or skill means being able to prove mastery in front of a jury. That's not possible with an app.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
JoeT #3033258 10/08/20 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Someone continuously trying to police what I'm allowed to post (not only on this thread) as if he was appointed moderator provoked a reaction. I didn't intend it to go this way.

I didn't intend it to go this way either. In all threads before this one, I never "tried to police what you said", I just disagreed with you in a polite manner. Only in this thread, I said "maybe some people should stop stating their opinions as facts", and I didn't even mention your name.

If someone ask a question on this forum, you state all your opinions as if they are facts. I will not take the effort to search into past threads to provide multiple quotes, but there are examples enough. "vst's are not designed for playability" is one of them. Comments like this are nothing more than an opinion, and you say all of them as if they are facts. Like I said before the only issue I have with this is that it can be misleading to other people, especially newcomers. It's no coincidence you constantly run into people strongly disagreeing with you.



Originally Posted by JoeT
You have your own warped definition of "learning to play the piano", this obviously is also the reason, why you're constantly upset with someone stating "opinion as fact" (as if not everything posted on a forum is opinion anyway). Where I come from learning an art or skill means being able to prove mastery in front of a jury. That's not possible with an app.

See, this is your problem. You call my definition of learning to play the piano "warped", because it's different from yours. You think your opinions are the truth. They are not. They are opinions. You think my playing disqualify's as art? just because I didn't learn playing the traditional way? because i'm using incorrect technique? It's still art, just accept it. You don't have to like it.


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So, if the only thing you can afford is a digital piano, just give up playing any at all. Either you get the real deal or its closest (hybrids) or go playing ukelele.

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It is OK stating ones opinions, but IMO, some of them should be refrained from being given for being a deservice to everybody.

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I think you're being way out of line, JoeT.

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@JoeT: as usual, you are always so kind with people!

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JoeT, where is this anger coming from ?


These are comments from other people directed at you, just from this thread only. It seems you have a little trouble listening to anyone other than yourself. I think it's safe to say, if I didn't learn to play piano, you didn't learn how to have discussions with people. wink

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3033264 10/08/20 04:35 AM
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I foresee a moderator entering this topic soon and sayin "guys, get back to the topic or cease this discussion or I will do it".

I think there will be no agreement on this matter so I suggest we all put our guns, pens, keyboards at rest on this matter and get back to the topic.

Back to the topic, many years ago I (re)started with a Casio PX-350. It was what I was willing to spend at the time, reviews were positive and it was a good acquisition to me and helped me to restart playing a keyboard after twenty years of not playing at all. Despite its shortcomings, it served me well. It is serving my sister well now, even served her church for a couple of weeks when their main keyboard was down.

I have no intent to becoming a Glenn Gould. I think most here are like me, i.e. they are just wanting to enjoy themselves and make some art.

Of course, there are some more serious beginners, aiming to learn piano in the traditional way, but that can only afford a DP at the moment. I don't think they would be let down for an ES110 or a P125 short term, if they are all they can afford. If that were the case (which I disagree, of course) they could still get the ukulele. wink


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
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