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Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
#3032793 10/06/20 05:01 PM
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my friend wants to start playing the piano. which do you recommend? I can read that kawai has a better action. Is it true?

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Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3032797 10/06/20 05:13 PM
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Two of my more experienced piano students just shopped this segment. One bought a Roland FP30 and the other bought a Kawai ES110. Neither seemed impressed with the P125.


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Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3032811 10/06/20 05:53 PM
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FP30 = unnaturally heavy action.

If you're thinking of going in this direction, you'll need to spend some time at the store with it, to feel it out.

It's almost certainly inappropriate for novices going into piano. Piano is not weight lifting. An unnaturally resistant action won't make you stronger. Too much weight increases the odds of developing Repetitive stress injury or improper technique. In fact you need to be extremely experienced to DEAL WITH heavier actions, or risk injury.

In general ES110 is the safer action to start with.

To clarify, FP30 is NOT good for more experienced players either. The vast majority of people who've tried it at length will tell you, it's exhausting to play.

Grand piano actions are about the same starting weight, but as it goes down, the resistance abates, and the key feels like it's falling on its own.

Not true on an FP30, it's Heavy at the top, and you feel like you're fighting a spring the entire way down. <it's not a spring> but a poorly designed lever.

Last edited by jeffcat; 10/06/20 05:58 PM.
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
jeffcat #3032813 10/06/20 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
FP30 = unnaturally heavy action.

If you're thinking of going in this direction, you'll need to spend some time at the store with it, to feel it out.

It's almost certainly inappropriate for novices going into piano. Piano is not weight lifting. An unnaturally resistant action won't make you stronger. Too much weight increases the odds of developing Repetitive stress injury or improper technique.

In general ES110 is the safer action to start with.

To clarify, FP30 is NOT good for more experienced players either. The vast majority of people who've tried it at length will tell you, it's exhausting to play.

To the OP:

Jeffcat has a strong opinion on this question. But there are a fair number of people here, who have FP-30's, and are happy with them.

IMHO, for a beginning pianist, any of the P-125 / FP-30 / ES-110 will work fine.

Last edited by Charles Cohen; 10/06/20 06:01 PM.

. Charles
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Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
Charles Cohen #3032832 10/06/20 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Jeffcat has a strong opinion on this question. But there are a fair number of people here, who have FP-30's, and are happy with them.

IMHO, for a beginning pianist, any of the P-125 / FP-30 / ES-110 will work fine.

+1


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
Charles Cohen #3032834 10/06/20 06:42 PM
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cool

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3032847 10/06/20 06:53 PM
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I've played both the ES110 and P125 quite a bit, and I've test drove the FP30. I think a beginner would be fine with any of them since they haven't developed their own preference yet for touch or sound. Personally in terms of touch I'd put the ES110 and FP30 about even and would prefer both over the P125. I use a vst so don't have an opinion on builtin sounds.


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Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
jeffcat #3032873 10/06/20 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
FP30 = unnaturally heavy action.


Congratulations, you found the design limitation of any folded hammer action: no hammer escapement, no damper weight lifting

Quote
It's almost certainly inappropriate for novices going into piano. Piano is not weight lifting. An unnaturally resistant action won't make you stronger. Too much weight increases the odds of developing Repetitive stress injury or improper technique. In fact you need to be extremely experienced to DEAL WITH heavier actions, or risk injury.

That's why a beginner needs to start on a real acoustic piano. This is how it used to be and pianists switched to stage pianos when they started gigging, not the other way around.

Digital pianos are not for beginners.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
jeffcat #3032876 10/06/20 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
FP30 = unnaturally heavy action.
Correct, but you're not going to find a perfect action in a USD $500 instrument.

Furthermore, it's not simply a heavy action - the main problem is that the weight grading in uneven:

From A0 to about C3 all the keys are about the exact same weight (heavy), and then in the treble they become lighter and lighter. This is a common flaw with many Roland key actions. Acoustic, Yamaha digitals, and Kawai digitals do not suffer from this major flaw.

Note that the P-125 has it's own unique design flaw:
The weight of the ebony keys are not graded at all, whereas the ivory keys are graded nicely. However this flaw is far less noticeable (and until I pointed it out, probably undocumented!).

Last edited by Burkey; 10/06/20 08:19 PM.

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Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3032901 10/06/20 10:01 PM
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So, if the only thing you can afford is a digital piano, just give up playing any at all. Either you get the real deal or its closest (hybrids) or go playing ukelele.

Last edited by EVC2017; 10/06/20 10:02 PM.

Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3032923 10/07/20 01:37 AM
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Digital piano's are fine for beginners, and for more experienced players as well. In fact they are great.

If it wasn't for a digital I wouldn't have started playing piano at all, and I wouldn't have my acoustic piano now. And I'm very happy that I did start playing.

Sure going from my first digital to an acoustic took some adjustment, but other than that it's fine.

Sure a Steinway D in a privately owned concert hall is always best, but common... not everyone has the option to start with an acoustic...

Some people should maybe stop stating their strong opinions as facts, it can be misleading and demotivating to a beginner.

In fact my digital piano is still my most important piano as it gets the most use. Since I live in a townhouse I practice on it, and only use my acoustic to play pieces I can already play well.

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3032928 10/07/20 02:14 AM
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Also, if you are planning to use p-125 with your PC, like with pianoteq, it is not a good idea. The very low and very high velocity values are missing.

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3032931 10/07/20 02:23 AM
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I like quality construccion p125. It should has a better accion

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
U3piano #3032953 10/07/20 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
Digital piano's are fine for beginners, and for more experienced players as well. In fact they are great.

If it wasn't for a digital I wouldn't have started playing piano at all, and I wouldn't have my acoustic piano now. And I'm very happy that I did start playing.

Sure going from my first digital to an acoustic took some adjustment, but other than that it's fine.

Sure a Steinway D in a privately owned concert hall is always best, but common... not everyone has the option to start with an acoustic...

Some people should maybe stop stating their strong opinions as facts, it can be misleading and demotivating to a beginner.

In fact my digital piano is still my most important piano as it gets the most use. Since I live in a townhouse I practice on it, and only use my acoustic to play pieces I can already play well.

Exactly!!! I bolded the main points of your post, emphasing what is the most important and what motivated my previous post.

It is OK stating ones opinions, but IMO, some of them should be refrained from being given for being a deservice to everybody.

Last edited by EVC2017; 10/07/20 04:30 AM.

Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
EVC2017 #3032958 10/07/20 04:49 AM
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I think I can afford one of those (so-called) hybrids.
Originally Posted by EVC2017
So, if the only thing you can afford is a digital piano, just give up playing any at all. Either you get the real deal or its closest (hybrids) or go playing ukelele.
And that's quite fortunate, because I've been quite unsuccessful trying to find a digital ukelele.

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
U3piano #3032960 10/07/20 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
Digital piano's are fine for beginners, and for more experienced players as well. In fact they are great.

Sure, but not those sub $1000 toys mentioned on the thread title. Compared to real pianos, these are awful, not "great".

Quote
Sure a Steinway D in a privately owned concert hall is always best, but common... not everyone has the option to start with an acoustic...

Because "acoustic piano" only means "Steinway D in a privately owned concert hall".

Quote
demotivating to a beginner

If a forum post already demotivates you, you won't get far on any instrument. And no, you don't learn piano by using an app. Just to get that out of the way as well.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
MacMacMac #3032961 10/07/20 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think I can afford one of those (so-called) hybrids.
IMO, even the sound coming out from the AvantGrand cannot be compared to the lowest end of upright pianos from Yamaha and Kawai. It's a shame these acoustics are not something I can play at midnight and beyond without being a nuisance.

Last edited by Beowulf; 10/07/20 05:14 AM.

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Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
MacMacMac #3032962 10/07/20 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've been quite unsuccessful trying to find a digital ukelele.



wink


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
PlayerkaN #3032963 10/07/20 05:22 AM
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Nice find, KJ. If that's available at retail then I won't need to buy an NV10! smile

Re: Kawai es110 or yamaha p125?
MacMacMac #3032967 10/07/20 05:38 AM
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Damn, there goes my commission!

(joke)


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
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