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Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
#3031958 10/04/20 11:46 AM
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I may have posted this erroneously in the wrong thread please excuse me for double posting.

I am re-beginning as an adult. Most important to me are good key action and sound, I don't play well but have a good ear. I want to learn better technique and I want to create music. I am not very good and don't think I will learn blues and bogie woogies like I want to but I enjoy playing and want to learn to put music to my lyrics and poems with a good keyboard. I tried the fp30 liked action but sounded it a bit muffled in the bass, and the Yamaha p125 was easier to choose sound but felt more plasticky, many musicians I know like it and tell me to get it. Also been told the old P120 is very good, but hard to find, pricey and older.

Right now I have the choice between
used FP30 for $600
new Fp30 $1000
new P125 for $850
new Korg Sp280 for $999(friend recommended have not tried)
new RD88 for $1800.
new Yamaha P515 is $2100 all Cad$.

used P255 or P155 $1000-1300,
used P120 but it is $1100 but not local, don't want to buy without trying or ship.

Any advice would be so appreciated, I do not want to lose out again. I lost out on a FP30 with 3 pedals and furniture stand for $860.

I don't know what I need in terms of midi, USB bluetooth for future recording as well.

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Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3031962 10/04/20 11:52 AM
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Don't buy stuff under time pressure.

Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3031966 10/04/20 12:03 PM
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You already don't want the P120 as it's not local. And it's really old. And therefore probably $1000 is way too much.

You can rule out P125 and SP280 as their actions (supposedly) are not that great.

The RD88 is just an expensive FP30. Same action, maybe better piano sounds(?) or at least more of them, I suppose. It has all kinds of unnecessary fancy tech.

The FP30 and P515 are current models, so spare part availability is maybe the best in the long term if anything ever happens to break. And you'll have a warranty.

The used ones are a risky gamble though it's possible that they'd be fine for many years.

So, get the new FP30 as a cheaper option or the P515 if you really don't like the Roland sound.

As a bonus both are new and you don't need to rush the decision.

Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3031970 10/04/20 12:10 PM
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For what it's worth, I paid $1000 for a P120-S... in 2001. So it's not worth that much now and the actions seem ancient compared to what you can get today in a new package that is under warranty.

Also if you don't love the sound ultimately, keep in mind that you can always hook it up to an old/inexpensive computer in the future and use virtual instruments (VSTi)s.


Previous owner of a Yahama P-120 - now has new life with a student
New owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
clothearednincompo #3031972 10/04/20 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
. . .

So, get the new FP30 as a cheaper option or the P515 if you really don't like the Roland sound.

As a bonus both are new and you don't need to rush the decision.

+1.


. Charles
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PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
newer player #3031973 10/04/20 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Don't buy stuff under time pressure.

+1. Take a step back. There are no "steals of the century" you will find on digital pianos, especially not on impulse like this. I've bought a lot of used DPs at very good prices, and I waited for months to find mine.

None of these are tremendous bargains, especially the old DPs. You'll find FP-30s and P-125s or P-115s coming on sale every which way till Tuesday. If you miss out on one, another will be posted next week at 15% less.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3031977 10/04/20 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Kayron
I don't know what I need in terms of midi, USB bluetooth for future recording as well.
If you're looking to record into a computer, pretty much any DP works. If they have USB, you can use the typical USB printer cable. If they have 5-pin MIDI connectors, you use an inexpensive interface, $40 from a name brand, cheaper for a no-name knock-off that usually works. So not really a factor in your decision.

In your price range, Kawai and Casio also have their fans.

Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3031986 10/04/20 12:58 PM
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I thank you all SO much. I have lost some really good deals and as much as I thought musicians would be selling more due to the pandemic and needing money this is NOT the case. It is hard even to buy new as most stores don't have all the models to compare.

I thought the FP30 for $600 used is a good deal, thought of offering perhaps $500? I now am offered an FP-4f for $750 I do not know it, he says it was a $2250 model 7 years ago, and is supposed to have better action. I have been researching too much, driving myself crazy, I gave up my rental nearly 2 months ago and really need something since we are under lockdown again

Last edited by Kayron; 10/04/20 01:02 PM.
Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3031991 10/04/20 01:07 PM
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It the market is tight then I'd wait to buy. I wouldn't want to be a buyer in a seller's market ... nor vice versa.

Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
kimby #3031992 10/04/20 01:07 PM
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Thank you! I don't know why the p120, 155, 255 don't seem to go down in value compared to newer models, people selling them at $1000-1300 and say they are worth while even though older

Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3032014 10/04/20 02:02 PM
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The FP-4f has an "Ivory Feel-G" action. The FP-30 has a "PHA4-Standard" action. It's one "generation" newer (the lowest level in Roland's current lineup).

If you check old reviews, (if I remember correctly), you'll find that the PHA4-Standard was considered a significant upgrade of the "Ivory Feel-G".

The price of a DP when it was new, _7 years ago_, is a very poor indicator of its value, relative to more-recent gear.



Originally Posted by MacMacMac
It the market is tight then I'd wait to buy. I wouldn't want to be a buyer in a seller's market ... nor vice versa.

How long would you wait to buy? The OP doesn't have a decent keyboard (or any keyboard?) now, and could be spending his time practicing, instead of waiting for a "good deal".


. Charles
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Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3032024 10/04/20 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kayron
Thank you! I don't know why the p120, 155, 255 don't seem to go down in value compared to newer models, people selling them at $1000-1300 and say they are worth while even though older

Private sellers often have unrealistic expectations of what their older used gear is worth. I tend to think most 5 year old digital pianos (in good shape, from home use environment) are worth maybe 50% of new. Perhaps a little more if it’s still a current model, which is unusual.


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Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
terminaldegree #3032037 10/04/20 03:20 PM
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I haven't looked at the prices of used gear during lockdown ... but generally speaking what td says is valid:
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Private sellers often have unrealistic expectations of what their older used gear is worth. I tend to think most 5 year old digital pianos (in good shape, from home use environment) are worth maybe 50% of new. Perhaps a little more if it’s still a current model, which is unusual.
Have a look at Ebay. There are used pianos for sale where the seller's asking price is higher than the price when new!

Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
clothearednincompo #3032040 10/04/20 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
The RD88 is just an expensive FP30. Same action, maybe better piano sounds(?) or at least more of them, I suppose. It has all kinds of unnecessary fancy tech.

This is complete bull****. Sorry, but having owned both, I can say that the RD-88 is in a completely different league than the FP-30. They might have the same action, but the sounds and speakers are much better on the RD-88. The dynamics feel totally different too, and the amount of features and parameters you can adjust on the RD-88 make is a much more capable instrument overall.

Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3032041 10/04/20 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kayron
I thank you all SO much. I have lost some really good deals and as much as I thought musicians would be selling more due to the pandemic and needing money this is NOT the case. It is hard even to buy new as most stores don't have all the models to compare.
Yup, pianos are selling like hot cakes during the pandemic, so it's no surprise they are sold out everywhere...

Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3032059 10/04/20 04:22 PM
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FP30's PHA4 action along with the NWX on P515 are both VERY heavy actions.

FP30, generally avoid, unless you're also a bodybuilder, because it's exhausting to play at length.

The NWX, it's pretty heavy, you'll have to decide for yourself if it's suitable.

I wouldn't consider EITHER of these choices without playing them first.

P125, no problem there, except the action has poor durability. youtube it.

Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3032069 10/04/20 05:04 PM
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Don't listen to the above, it's been tested that the GHS action in the P125 is heavier than the Roland's PHA4. jeffcat just likes the es110 which has virtually no weight, that's why he says all the time that other actions are super heavy, fatiguing, causing health problems etc. (which is obviously not true)

Though one thing is certain - the best option is to try the actions yourself and see what you personally like best.

Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
FPlays #3032081 10/04/20 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by FPlays
Don't listen to the above, it's been tested that the GHS action in the P125 is heavier than the Roland's PHA4. jeffcat just likes the es110 which has virtually no weight, that's why he says all the time that other actions are super heavy, fatiguing, causing health problems etc. (which is obviously not true)

Though one thing is certain - the best option is to try the actions yourself and see what you personally like best.

Fplays is a liar, it's a proven fact that if you play the Fp30, your penis will fall off and run away.. Hahahaha...


I'm not recommending the ES110, though I think it's far more suitable for beginners.

FP30 is very fatiguing to play even for seasoned players. P125 definitely is not heavier than FP30, That claim is unsubstantiated.

FP30 has a high downforce, but it also has a very heavy follow through. This is very un-piano like. Grand pianos would have a high initial downforce, but the weight feels like it's falling off. PHA-4 action just feels heavy all the way down.

The P125 has a pretty similar initial downforce, but the follow through isn't as tiring as the FP30.

I'm NOT recommending ANY of these DPs. I think you should play them in depth at the store, and see for yourself.

A DP I will recommend is the Kawai CA79 or any other Grand feel Kawai DP.

Kawai's RH3 action is imho better balanced than Yamaha's NWX. Buh, the prices are kinda steep for what they are, you might as well save up for a DP with Grand feel.

Last edited by jeffcat; 10/04/20 06:00 PM.
Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Kayron #3032122 10/04/20 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Kayron
I do not want to lose out again. I lost out on a FP30 with 3 pedals and furniture stand for $860.
Never shop for expensive items in such a rush.
$860 is not a super special price. I purchased the same kit above brand-new for about USD $580 + tax. Don't always assume that you missed out on a bargain. Fear of missing out is a disease that afflicts many people.

Originally Posted by Kayron
I don't know what I need in terms of midi, USB bluetooth for future recording as well.
Note that of all the models you listed above, only the P-125 and FP-90 support digital audio recording. The others all only support analogue audio output - there is no point owning a digital piano to record if it doesn't support digital audio output. So if recording quality is important - then be aware of this feature.

Also with the P-125 (usually the same price as the FP-30) - the keys are plasticky, but that only affects you if the room temperature/humidity causes your fingers to sweat. If you live in a cool climate or turn on the air conditioning then the keys are totally fine.

Last edited by Burkey; 10/04/20 08:06 PM.

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Re: Piano choice need help today to not lose deal again
Burkey #3032125 10/04/20 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Burkey
Note that of all the models you listed above, only the P-125 and FP-90 support digital audio recording. The others all only support analogue audio output - there is no point owning a digital piano to record if it doesn't support digital audio output. So if recording quality is important - then be aware of this feature.
The RD-88 may also support digital audio recording.


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