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Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
onaiplatigid #3031152 10/02/20 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by onaiplatigid
I failed Math in high school. Can I still play the piano?
You can play the piano, but you must learn to perceive the rhythm through its verbalization, without counting one-and two-and . http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...atives-to-the-metronome.html#Post3005749


Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
But simply re-writing the music to longer note values doesn't reduce the amount of information. It's exactly the same notes played slower.
.
The saturation of audio information is determined by the number of sounds (notes ) per unit of time ,for example, a second. Therefore, slowing down the recording reducing this saturation , allows for better listening.

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Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
onaiplatigid #3031160 10/02/20 02:10 AM
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The only thing that will REALLY help is a metronome of some kind. Personally I prefer the Soundbrenner Pulse, I have troubles hearing a tick over my playing. The option to feel the pulse has made my timting a lot better.

Additionally there are apps like "Perfect Ear" that have timing excercises, those are great but in the end a metronome is what you need.

Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
onaiplatigid #3031161 10/02/20 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by FloRi89
The only thing that will REALLY help is a metronome of some kind. Personally I prefer the Soundbrenner Pulse,
.
Or Seiko BU10 - it is cheaper.

Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
onaiplatigid #3031209 10/02/20 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by onaiplatigid
Like quarter note, single note, half note, full note, my teacher said my timing is inconsistent, wrong and she wants me to keep it steady.

What can help? Just metronome?

this is one of those fundamentals of piano that requires the guidance from a good teacher, so perhaps talking to your own teacher is the best tip I can give.

However, my own experience in coming to grips with counting is probably typical. It only gets better over a long period of time, and perhaps with some targeted work if needed. A metronome is a useful tool, but my own teacher rarely uses it with me (mainly just to check on the tempo of a piece). She believes timing must be felt physically, and there seems to be no better way to do this other than counting out loud, and when ready introduce clapping/tapping. This also means having a language for counting subdivisions, this will quite possibly vary between teachers and definitely varies between countries so I would be asking my teacher what they recommend/use.

I don't know how other students fared, but my first two teachers never taught me a thing about timing/rhythm/counting. Perhaps its a bit like sightreading, in that teachers assume you know what to do, and also assume you are doing it between lessons. By the time I got to my third teacher (who put me straight) I naturally had a bit of catching up to do. One thing that really helped me where clapping exercises, my favourites where those found in Improve Your SightReading from the Paul Harris books. Things start to get a bit more complex in books 3 & 4, but are the sort of rhythms encountered in the first and second grade levels (dotted notes, simple syncopation etc), The sight reading exercises themselves have more variance, and they are now available as mp3 downloads. It is well worth learning to clap along to these, and then to actually learn/play them as the next stage of improvement.

Originally Posted by onaiplatigid
my teacher said my timing is inconsistent, wrong and she wants me to keep it steady.

My final word is make sure your teacher is not just telling you there is a problem, but is showing you how to fix it. Addressing a lack of understanding, getting early principles correct, is vital.


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Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
onaiplatigid #3031219 10/02/20 06:35 AM
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Try not to rely on metronome for too long, the rhythm must come from inside you. It's better to count out loud or to tap your foot steadily (just make sure the latter will not become a habit).

Also try drumming different rhythms with your fingers on a table - this has helped me much in my teens.

Last edited by Iaroslav Vasiliev; 10/02/20 06:38 AM.
Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
Iaroslav Vasiliev #3031291 10/02/20 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
Try not to rely on metronome for too long, the rhythm must come from inside you. It's better to count out loud or to tap your foot steadily (just make sure the latter will not become a habit).

Haha I'm a foot tapper. I started music on the violin so the foot was free to tap. By the time I started piano the rhythm could be felt so no need to tap anymore. But I think for me tapping was more helpful than counting because it's physical so gets felt more than words.

Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
wszxbcl #3031332 10/02/20 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wszxbcl
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
Try not to rely on metronome for too long, the rhythm must come from inside you. It's better to count out loud or to tap your foot steadily (just make sure the latter will not become a habit).

Haha I'm a foot tapper. I started music on the violin so the foot was free to tap. By the time I started piano the rhythm could be felt so no need to tap anymore. But I think for me tapping was more helpful than counting because it's physical so gets felt more than words.

I was watching a program about Schubert on PBS's, "Now Hear This" from the "Great Performances" series. At one point, the string quartet was joined by a fifth member for the Schubert ("Cello") Quintet. The first violinist was a foot-tapper. I have seen many chamber music concerts and have occasionally been aware of the first violinist's discreet foot tapping, but never one where the foot tapping was as conspicuous as in this performance. I found it distracting even though the overall performance was outstanding.

Lesson: Those who have to count or keep time during performances, however they do it, should do so discreetly.

Regards,


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Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
onaiplatigid #3031338 10/02/20 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
[ The first violinist was a foot-tapper. I have seen many chamber music concerts and have occasionally been aware of the first violinist's discreet foot tapping, but never one where the foot tapping was as conspicuous as in this performance. I found it distracting even though the overall performance was outstanding.

Lesson: Those who have to count or keep time during performances, however they do it, should do so discreetly.

Regards,
He did not know what I had learned in the symphonic orchestra as principal violist : tapping out the rhythm with big toe in a shoe ...

Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
Nahum #3031340 10/02/20 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by BruceD
[ The first violinist was a foot-tapper. I have seen many chamber music concerts and have occasionally been aware of the first violinist's discreet foot tapping, but never one where the foot tapping was as conspicuous as in this performance. I found it distracting even though the overall performance was outstanding.

Lesson: Those who have to count or keep time during performances, however they do it, should do so discreetly.

Regards,
He did not know what I had learned in the symphonic orchestra as principal violist : tapping out the rhythm with big toe in a shoe ...

I’m surprised he had not been taught to tap inside the shoe— I thought it was common instruction


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Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
BruceD #3031362 10/02/20 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
At one point, the string quartet was joined by a fifth member for the Schubert ("Cello") Quintet. The first violinist was a foot-tapper. I have seen many chamber music concerts and have occasionally been aware of the first violinist's discreet foot tapping, but never one where the foot tapping was as conspicuous as in this performance. I found it distracting even though the overall performance was outstanding.

Lesson: Those who have to count or keep time during performances, however they do it, should do so discreetly.

Regards,

Yes that would be annoying. I wonder if he was tapping for the whole ensemble, sort of like a big band leader.

As others have said, I can do big toe tapping in the shoe :-) But even that needs to stop for piano, at least for me, I can't do that and pedal. It's funny cos in an ensemble the pianist keeps the rhythm so he'd better be good at it!

Re: How can I improve my "timing"?
onaiplatigid #3031367 10/02/20 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
I’m surprised he had not been taught to tap inside the shoe— I thought it was common instruction
It cost me 13 years of study, 9 years of experience in the orchestra and moving to another country to learn this trick.
I like my Seiko Beat Unit even more than SoundBrenner: I attach it to the back of my trousers belt, put it on a stronger pulse; and start getting kicks like the violinist is tapping a rhythm on my back with his foot, but silently. Try to play out of rhythm in these conditions!

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