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Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
#3031037 10/01/20 04:59 PM
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Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm?

Last edited by Prestzie; 10/01/20 05:02 PM.
Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031063 10/01/20 06:09 PM
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Yes.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031075 10/01/20 06:57 PM
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I can’t, but I apparently I can follow. I took a 6 week band seminar. I didn’t notice, but at the recital my regular piano teacher said the drummer was all over the place. She said considering how many lessons he had he did good and we didn’t sound too bad since the rest of were able to follow him. smile

I’ve found keeping time to a simple drum track is way easier than a ticking a metronome ever since.

Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031087 10/01/20 07:39 PM
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Yes absolutely. Why do you ask?


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Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031138 10/02/20 12:13 AM
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Yes.


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Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031154 10/02/20 02:37 AM
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It depends. Yes, when it is very obvious and a straight forward rhythm. But for more subtle rhythm mistakes, I need to clap and count. When it is a complicated rhythm, for instance, with different time signatures, I cannot tell.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031173 10/02/20 04:27 AM
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Of course !

Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031217 10/02/20 07:24 AM
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I really can’t tell.. do you really count to the bears when someone is playing piano?

Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031228 10/02/20 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Prestzie
I really can’t tell.. do you really count to the bears when someone is playing piano?
No, we feel it.......from long experience of clapping, stamping, playing, singing, dancing, hopping, jumping (whatever) in time to the beat in all sorts of music.
Assuming you are American (or even if you're not), clap in time along to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFC-K2IlIU4

Can you hear - and feel - the rhythm, and know when he suddenly slows down?

Now, find out where the strong beats are (i.e. when you might to stamp your foot as well as clap whistle). They should also be regular almost all the way. How many 'weak beats' before each strong beat?

Is it two-in-a-bar, or three or four? (Bar = measure)

Now beat time to it, like a conductor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdvHUJ88tao

Do this - and sing/hum/whistle along - with every piece of simple music you know - Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star, Happy Birthday, Amazing Grace etc. Learn to feel the beats, and where the strong beats are, and therefore how many beats in a bar/measure.

Feeling the beat is the basics of aural skills.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031290 10/02/20 11:33 AM
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I had the interesting experience of sitting behind the percussion section during a rehearsal of Stravinsky’s “Rite of Spring”. The time signature was constantly changing and the work of the percussion section was fascinating. Talk about wild rhythms!


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031382 10/02/20 04:06 PM
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I’m stupid, but how can you tell how many bars in each measure and how do you know what note value they are playing without seeing the music sheet?

Last edited by Prestzie; 10/02/20 04:06 PM.
Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031395 10/02/20 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Prestzie
I’m stupid, but how can you tell how many bars in each measure and how do you know what note value they are playing without seeing the music sheet?
No-one's talking about note values, or sheet music. You don't need either. You don't need to be able to read music to hear where the beats fall. A child can clap or skip or dance in time to music, including music he/she's never heard before.

This is all about listening skills.

Can you clap or tap along to the linked piece (The Star-Spangled Banner) above? If you really can't, you have serious problems.

Try clapping along with the audience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ORHVroiWHk


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031437 10/02/20 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Prestzie
I’m stupid, but how can you tell how many bars in each measure and how do you know what note value they are playing without seeing the music sheet?
I think you are confusing your terms. A "bar" refers only to the vertical line on the score and a "measure" refers to the beats contained between bars. The time signature at the beginning of the piece will tell the musician how many beats there are in each measure and which note value (sixteenth, quarter, half etc.), gets one beat. For example, 3/4 time means there are 3 beats in each measure and the quarter note gets one beat. 6/8 time means there are six beats in a measure and the eighth note gets one beat. Usually, the first note of each measure gets a slight emphasis which could be a slight raising of volume or a slight holding of the note.

Now for listening: Since it's most common that the first beat of each measure is stressed, listen for the stress to help identify the rhythm. For example, try listening to any waltz, which is 3/4 time. In a waltz the first note of each measure gets the emphasis so: ONE two three, ONE two three, etc.

You might consider trying to conduct a recording to see if you can identify the rhythm. Others have suggested clapping.

Hope that helps.


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031480 10/02/20 08:39 PM
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In a Bach Chorale it is the music in its forward motion towards
next cadence .(for example , not the in 3 or 4 beats in a bar, with accent on the first beat of the bar) The rhythm clearly follows the "harmonic rhythm" ,in this case always moving forward towards the cadence in only a few bars.
This is very different to a 20th century work like the Rite of Spring . Here the rhythm of the expanding time signatures in some of the movements may follow the density of textural structures rather than the pure functional harmony of Bach .One study suggests Stravinsky first worked out the rhythm in some of movements then added textured structures.
It s an interesting piece to discuss when discussing rhythm.

Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
gooddog #3031505 10/02/20 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gooddog
Originally Posted by Prestzie
I’m stupid, but how can you tell how many bars in each measure and how do you know what note value they are playing without seeing the music sheet?
I think you are confusing your terms. A "bar" refers only to the vertical line on the score and a "measure" refers to the beats contained between bars. The time signature at the beginning of the piece will tell the musician how many beats there are in each measure and which note value (sixteenth, quarter, half etc.), gets one beat. For example, 3/4 time means there are 3 beats in each measure and the quarter note gets one beat. 6/8 time means there are six beats in a measure and the eighth note gets one beat. Usually, the first note of each measure gets a slight emphasis which could be a slight raising of volume or a slight holding of the note.

Now for listening: Since it's most common that the first beat of each measure is stressed, listen for the stress to help identify the rhythm. For example, try listening to any waltz, which is 3/4 time. In a waltz the first note of each measure gets the emphasis so: ONE two three, ONE two three, etc.

You might consider trying to conduct a recording to see if you can identify the rhythm. Others have suggested clapping.

Hope that helps.

Sorry gooddog, but in British English a bar is the term for a measure. The vertical lines which separate the bars/measures are termed bar lines. We say e.g. there are three beats to the bar, the piece is 32 bars long and so on.

Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3031846 10/04/20 05:55 AM
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Prestzie,, can you tell if someone is not walking the street in rhythm ? That is, it walks quickly, suddenly slowly, suddenly runs, suddenly stands; right? Under what conditions does this happen in a normal person in a normal situation? It happens when a person has no target : he knows where he came from, but has no idea where to go and why ! Hence, the lack of "phrasing" walking (sic!), and as a result - irregularity of steps. If this person walked from home straight to the goal, for example, to a supermarket, then you can be sure that his walk will be rhythmic, although there is always room for deviations, for example, the sidewalk rises somewhat, and then descends somewhat. In music, such changes are called agogic; and in more significant cases, rubato; but this is by no means irregularity. You can call it a rhythmic gyroscope.
Rhythm refers to a rhythmic tendency , not to a metronome that has no tendency . Rhythmic tendencies come from spoken and poetic language. For example, the Greek iambic rhythm, which was the most important for Bach, is a combination of upbeat with downbeat : before = and one. There is a tendency here: downbeat, like a magnet, attracts upbeat.
An elementary rhythmic tendency in a 4/4 bar -three upbeats are leading to target -minimum - downbeat of next bar :

||: ONE and - and- and - | ONE and -and- and-| ONE and- and- and-:|| etc. Don't think about upbeats, just about downbeats; and the rhythm builds on its own.

However, this is an elementary rhythmic structure; the next level is a block of two bars:
||: ONE and-and-and- | and- and-and-and: II

Further, a similar structure of 4, 8,16, 32, etc. bars, until the very last note will be the target.

Hanon is very good for such exercises.

Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
Prestzie #3032039 10/04/20 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Prestzie
I’m stupid, but how can you tell how many bars in each measure and how do you know what note value they are playing without seeing the music sheet?
As people have said above, you don't need to be able to read sheet music to keep in time with a beat, but you can tell how many beats are in each measure by which beat is emphasized. Eg. if the beat is emphasized every 3 beats, you know it is in some form of 3 time (3/4, 3/8, etc.) As for note value, you can tell by how many beats each note spans. It is pretty easy for me to tell, but it might be harder for other people. Little thing: the exact value (quarter note, eighth note, etc.) depends on which time signature you interpret it as. For example, a quarter note played in 4/4 will sound exactly the same as an eighth note played in 2/4 at half tempo.

Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
gooddog #3032136 10/04/20 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by gooddog
I think you are confusing your terms. A "bar" refers only to the vertical line on the score and a "measure" refers to the beats contained between bars. The time signature at the beginning of the piece will tell the musician how many beats there are in each measure and which note value (sixteenth, quarter, half etc.), gets one beat.

"Measure" is a North American thing, but "bar" is also used there with the same meaning e.g. 12-bar blues. I never heard the term "measure" used in my studies of music theory.

Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
johnstaf #3032179 10/05/20 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by gooddog
I think you are confusing your terms. A "bar" refers only to the vertical line on the score and a "measure" refers to the beats contained between bars. The time signature at the beginning of the piece will tell the musician how many beats there are in each measure and which note value (sixteenth, quarter, half etc.), gets one beat.

"Measure" is a North American thing, but "bar" is also used there with the same meaning e.g. 12-bar blues. I never heard the term "measure" used in my studies of music theory.

In my experience, "bar" and "measure" are frequently used synonymously. A "bar line" on the other hand means simply what it implies: a vertical line separating measures (or bars) in a score.

Regards,


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Re: Can you tell if someone is not playing in rhythm
bennevis #3034696 10/12/20 05:51 AM
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how do you tell if say someone plays slightly out of rhythm in solo playing? For example if they should be playing a minum but only plays it like a dotted note..

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