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Kawai behavior when lifting pedal
#3030869 10/01/20 08:52 AM
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mlakis Offline OP
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Hi all,

I am a new owner of a Kawai MP7SE and it's my first digital piano, before I owned a Yamaha arranger and I was fiddling around with some VSTs (including Pianoteq demo).

I am pretty pleased with the sounds provided, but I came across a behavior and I don't know if it's a bug, a limitation or a feature, regarding that I don't have access to an acoustic piano at the moment to evaluate it.

My issue is that when you trigger some notes while pressing the sustain pedal, say A2 E3 A3, and then you lift the pedal but still holding the keys, the change on the sound seems more extreme than it maybe should. It "strikes" you with some mid frequency character. This can be repeated while holding the keys and pressing and releasing the sustain pedal many times.

When releasing the pedal, I would expect some resonance to disappear and maybe a slight tonal change, but it seems that the tonal change is huge, and it's annoying when playing on a passage that needs many sustain press/lift/repress.

For sure my pedaling technique is not among the piano virtuoso's, but I am also not sure if the Kawai's implementation is close to acoustic piano's behavior. Is this a real issue or not? Or either an inherent limitation of digital pianos with samples?

Re: Kawai behavior when lifting pedal
mlakis #3030992 10/01/20 02:19 PM
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FWIW --

When you hold down the sustain pedal (= lift the dampers), and strike A2-E3-A3, the samples used are from the "dampers up" sample set -- the whole harp resonates.

When you life the pedal (= let the dampers fall), the MP7 may be shifting to a "dampers down" sample set, for the notes that you're holding:

. . . that's a substantial difference on an acoustic piano,
. . . . . and it's reasonable for the MP7 to try to emulate it.

If you continue holding down the keys, and press the sustain pedal again:

. . . On an acoustic piano, the dampers lift, but the full "harp resonance" doesn't recur --

. . . . . if it _does_ recur on the MP7, that's a problem in the sound generator.

What _does_ occur on an acoustic is the "whoosh" of the dampers rising off the strings. It's clearly audible, and quite different from the "harp resonance" when you strike a key with the pedal down.


Two suggestions:

. . . Try changing the values for "damper resonance" in the Piano Designer (or whatever Kawai
. . . . . calls it);

... . Try changing the values for anything else related to damper movement -- "Pedal noise" ??? --
. . . in the Piano Designer.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Kawai behavior when lifting pedal
mlakis #3031020 10/01/20 03:58 PM
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Think it's "Virtual Technician" or something along that line... wink


Peter
--------------------------------
Yamaha U1 / Kawai CS11 / Kawai MP11SE / Hammond XK-3c
Re: Kawai behavior when lifting pedal
mlakis #3032552 10/06/20 07:54 AM
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mlakis Offline OP
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Thanks for the responses, I will come back with a recording demonstrating what I described.

It seems that this behavior is specific to piano sound selected, it's there for all the "top end" sounds (SK, EX, SK-5), but for others not.

From some testing, as I said, it's more obvious on some "chords" like A2 E3 A3, or E3 B3 E4, and more evident when using speakers, but also there with headphones (AKG 240 studio).

If anyone else has MP7SE or of the same family like ES8, MP11SE, can you test if you experience this? As said, I will also provide a recording when I find my USB stick!

Thanks in advance.

Re: Kawai behavior when lifting pedal
mlakis #3039884 10/27/20 11:37 AM
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Well, I've uploaded an example, I think that the "pulsing" is heard. It's the effect of holding the keys and repeatedly pressing and lifting the pedal. The bank selected is the default "SK Concert Grand" with reverb and pedal noise disabled.

The link for the MP3 unfortunately works only for 7 days. Here it is.

Re: Kawai behavior when lifting pedal
mlakis #3039907 10/27/20 12:28 PM
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If I have damper resonance on 5, I can hear it twice, if doing pedal every second.
And first time it should attenuate as harp is dampers on.
But can hear one more time a tiny bit, but not really bothering me.

If damper resonance on 3, I can only hear it first time as above.
So try fiddle a bit(as charles cohen suggested above).

But also dealing with decay of note that I felt never stopped, I have Sound setting DCA decay -3 currently from default 0. So note is decaying slightly faster but to full liking.

I have string resonance on 3.

System setting for damper=normal and halfpedal is 4 for me.

There are loads of settings to getting as close as you like it.


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