|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
69 members (Abdulrohmanoman, Charles Cohen, accordeur, BWV846, Animisha, benkeys, Anglagard44, 12 invisible),
2,309
guests, and
436
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676 |
The whole concept of "The Great Composer " only came about in the 19th century when composers ,poets ,philosophers began to recognize each other as great. The idea is steeped in n the philosophy of 19th centuary Romantiscm.It is interesting that this concept is still SO important to us today. There certainly were composers before the 19th century that were considered great during their lifetimes...Mozart and Handel to name just two of many. Stop twisting things pianoloverus I never said he was the greatest composer !!!
Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/30/20 11:08 PM. Reason: spelling
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,106
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,106 |
-after Chopin died in 1849, Liszt wrote to Princess Wittgenstein of finally realizing the true and magnificent beauty in his final works, that “no other can be compared with him – he shines alone and unique in the artistic heavens (p 44) http://lisztomania.wikidot.com/liszt-and-chopin
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,805
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,805 |
The whole concept of "The Great Composer " only came about in the 19th century when composers ,poets ,philosophers began to recognize each other as great. The idea is steeped in n the philosophy of 19th centuary Romantiscm.It is interesting that this concept is still SO important to us today. There certainly were composers before the 19th century that were considered great during their lifetimes...Mozart and Handel to name just two of many. Stop twisting things pianoloverus I never said he was the greatest composer !!! You don't seem to understand what I wrote. It has nothing to do with saying Chopin was the greatest composer.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676 |
pianoloverus
All you need to have said is "Yes LB , I realise you do not mean that Chopin was the greatest composer that ever lived "
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676 |
Who were considered great before the 19th century, other composers recognized each others talents , writers other musicians wrote things .The aristocracy favourite's , not great , not the church. Ordinary people seldom heard this music . Mozarts letters reveal his intense jealousy of successful composers.(!no wonder) He was remembered as the prodigy pianist , known as a pianist . Hadyn I think called Mozart great ? not sure , perhaps CPE Bach ? Did he say great , did great mean what we mean ? Bach, Telemann, Vivaldi all respected each other. People never walked around saying "oh did you know Mozart is the greatest composer ever"
Last edited by Lady Bird; 10/01/20 03:24 AM. Reason: spelling
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,854
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,854 |
Re Haydn and Mozart, Haydn famously said to Leopold Mozart: "Before God and as an honest man I tell you that your son is the greatest composer known to me either in person or by name; he has taste, and, furthermore, the most profound knowledge of composition".
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 961
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 961 |
.... we can rest assured that Chopin did not choose to compose his preludes in every major and minor key as a tribute to Bach because he considered Bach to be an inferior composer. How you know Chopin considered Bach to be inferior. I think you have mis-read this. He is saying the opposite, Chopin admired the work of Bach. After all, only a fool wouldn't. There is plenty of evidence that Chopin admired Bach enormously, and this is what, if you read it correctly, Sweelinck is saying.(IMO) For example: https://www.classicfm.com/composers/chopin/guides/chopin-facts/johann-sebastian-bach/
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 455
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 455 |
Chopin, despite being widely considered the symbol of the piano world, doesn't vibe with me at all. It's a generalization though and it's my personal opinion.
More than Chopin, I like Mendelssohn and Mozart with the classical style (still haven't quite explored Beethoven), and Liszt and Schumann with the romantic style. Bach ought to be great as well, it just takes more listening and also playing to appreciate his musicianship, I guess.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956 |
Re Haydn and Mozart, Haydn famously said to Leopold Mozart: "Before God and as an honest man I tell you that your son is the greatest composer known to me either in person or by name; he has taste, and, furthermore, the most profound knowledge of composition". There certainly is no reason to believe that Haydn was wrong when he made this assertion to Mozart's father. Beethoven hadn't yet come onto the scene. Unfortunately, we have little information regarding Haydn's familiarity with or opinion of Beethoven's most important works composed before Haydn's death in 1809.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956 |
Chopin, despite being widely considered the symbol of the piano world, doesn't vibe with me at all. It's a generalization though and it's my personal opinion. If you haven't already done so, listen to some recordings of Chopin's 4th Ballade, 2nd and 3rd Scherzi, Sonata No. 3 Opus 58, the the complete Opus 10 and 25 Etudes, the Opus 28 Preludes, his Waltz's Opus 18 and 42, and Nocturnes Opus 9 No.1, Opus 27 No. 2 and us 62 No. 1 - and then let us know if your opinion has changed.
Last edited by Carey; 10/01/20 12:02 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 455
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 455 |
Chopin, despite being widely considered the symbol of the piano world, doesn't vibe with me at all. It's a generalization though and it's my personal opinion. If you haven't already done so, listen to some recordings of Chopin's 4th Ballade, 2nd and 3rd Scherzi, Sonata No. 3 Opus 58, the the complete Opus 10 and 25 Etudes, the Opus 28 Preludes, his Waltz's Opus 18 and 42, and Nocturnes Opus 9 No.1, Opus 27 No. 2 and us 62 No. 1 - and then let us know if your opinion has changed. Okay, I'll try those although I'm not into ballads as a whole and also the Nocturnes didn't vibe with me before, they might grow on me eventually. As a whole though, I find Chopin's music too romantic, "frenchish", soft, mellow, or as another person put it "kitschy". Of course there are going to be exceptions, but so far my experience has been like that. :-)
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956 |
Chopin, despite being widely considered the symbol of the piano world, doesn't vibe with me at all. It's a generalization though and it's my personal opinion. If you haven't already done so, listen to some recordings of Chopin's 4th Ballade, 2nd and 3rd Scherzi, Sonata No. 3 Opus 58, the the complete Opus 10 and 25 Etudes, the Opus 28 Preludes, his Waltz's Opus 18 and 42, and Nocturnes Opus 9 No.1, Opus 27 No. 2 and us 62 No. 1 - and then let us know if your opinion has changed. Okay, I'll try those although I'm not into ballads as a whole and also the Nocturnes didn't vibe with me before, they might grow on me eventually. As a whole though, I find Chopin's music too romantic, "frenchish", soft, mellow, or as another person put it "kitschy". Of course there are going to be exceptions, but so far my experience has been like that. :-) Got it. So perhaps you should hold off on the Nocturnes for now and start with the 2nd Scherzo https://youtu.be/z_MwPdr7WXQ4th Ballade https://youtu.be/7tmQSWuYwrI 3rd Sonata https://youtu.be/xGJxmCOPFVMOpus 10 Etudes No. 1, 4, 5, 7, 8, 12 and Opus 25 Etudes No. 3, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12. https://youtu.be/g0hoN6_HDVUHAVE FUN !!!!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 882
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 882 |
Chopin, despite being widely considered the symbol of the piano world, doesn't vibe with me at all. It's a generalization though and it's my personal opinion. If you haven't already done so, listen to some recordings of Chopin's 4th Ballade, 2nd and 3rd Scherzi, Sonata No. 3 Opus 58, the the complete Opus 10 and 25 Etudes, the Opus 28 Preludes, his Waltz's Opus 18 and 42, and Nocturnes Opus 9 No.1, Opus 27 No. 2 and us 62 No. 1 - and then let us know if your opinion has changed. Okay, I'll try those although I'm not into ballads as a whole and also the Nocturnes didn't vibe with me before, they might grow on me eventually. As a whole though, I find Chopin's music too romantic, "frenchish", soft, mellow, or as another person put it "kitschy". Of course there are going to be exceptions, but so far my experience has been like that. :-) Well, not everybody likes the same thing so Chopin may not be for you. Just listening to his music didn't do it for me but playing it did and you may find the same. There is room for all kinds of music in the world and often within ourselves, and in a way Chopin opens up a new world of music that also leads to the likes of Scriabin...start where you like, perhaps picking bits out of waltzes, mazurkas, ballades, preludes and so on, just to get a flavor of what's in there. Like Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert (and even Bach!) it's a whole world within itself and comparisons with other worlds is kind of pointless.
regards Pete
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 5,067
5000 Post Club Member
|
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 5,067 |
As a whole though, I find Chopin's music too romantic, "frenchish", soft, mellow, or as another person put it "kitschy". Of course there are going to be exceptions, but so far my experience has been like that. :-) I think that music is exactly not frenchish. Whether that be Berlioz or other french composers, their music is more passionate, fantastic rather than soft and mellow. And many pieces of Chopin are not soft nor mellow at all.
Blüthner model 6
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 117
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 117 |
Just listening to his music didn't do it for me but playing it did and you may find the same. This is exactly what happened to me. I didn't listen to Chopin at all in my younger years; it all sounded too pretty. Then when I started playing the piano again (after a 20 year break), my teacher suggested some Nocturnes. That got me hooked, and I learned seven of them. I soon came to realize that beneath the surface sheen was something deep and lasting. Plus I came to love the surface sheen, too.
1994 M&H BB; Yamaha N1X
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 919
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 919 |
Bach, Mozart and Beethoven are not greater. Sorry. Your off your musical rocker.
Bösendorfer 170
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 919
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 919 |
Chopin, despite being widely considered the symbol of the piano world, doesn't vibe with me at all. It's a generalization though and it's my personal opinion.
More than Chopin, I like Mendelssohn and Mozart with the classical style (still haven't quite explored Beethoven), and Liszt and Schumann with the romantic style. Bach ought to be great as well, it just takes more listening and also playing to appreciate his musicianship, I guess. You have a lot of fun work ahead of you. I'm jealous. Chopin is my favorite with Ballad #4 his best and one of the most technically challenging pieces ever written for piano. I'm really into Rachmaninov and Scriabin lately. Both incredible Russian composers.
Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 10/01/20 07:44 PM.
Bösendorfer 170
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676 |
Chopin, despite being widely considered the symbol of the piano world, doesn't vibe with me at all. It's a generalization though and it's my personal opinion. If you haven't already done so, listen to some recordings of Chopin's 4th Ballade, 2nd and 3rd Scherzi, Sonata No. 3 Opus 58, the the complete Opus 10 and 25 Etudes, the Opus 28 Preludes, his Waltz's Opus 18 and 42, and Nocturnes Opus 9 No.1, Opus 27 No. 2 and us 62 No. 1 - and then let us know if your opinion has changed. Okay, I'll try those although I'm not into ballads as a whole and also the Nocturnes didn't vibe with me before, they might grow on me eventually. As a whole though, I find Chopin's music too romantic, "frenchish", soft, mellow, or as another person put it "kitschy". Of course there are going to be exceptions, but so far my experience has been like that. :-) Overplayed pieces of all the "great" great composers may in different, individual people "become" or eventually be perceived as "kitschy" or plain boring. As one woman said "Liszt and his Liebestraum" Whether "Mozarts Elviras theme" has ruined the Concerto in C major K467 for some people, it has not had that affect on me. Fortunately I never saw the movie. In fact I have never tired of any of Mozarts music like I have with a number of Beethoven's great pieces. I dislike the Eroica Symphony, the 3rd Piano Concerto, the 1st and 3rd movements of the Emperor Concerto. Yet I love the 4th Piano Concerto which I think is the greatest concerto of Beethoven. When comes to Liszt I could wipe out quite few things. Schumann, Schubert, Chopin, and Brahms I love. I am tired of Rachmaninov's famous things.....I like the 3rd Piano concerto. Scriabin can be fascinating.Schostakovitch ,Stravinsky and Prokoffief all wonderfull.I forgot Debussy, yes wonderfull. As for the greatest in my subjective mind here we go-( no particular order) Bach, Mozart ,Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Chopin,and Brahms. (I also love Mendelssohn's great works , Violin Concerto , Scottish Symohony, Oratorio, Elijah, some solo piano works)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 383
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 383 |
Bach, Mozart and Beethoven are not greater. Sorry. If you feel that Chopin is more emotionally affecting than any other composer, so be it. But to make a thread about it and shout loudly your opinion invites discussion on a somewhat more objective basis, where Chopin is easily ripped to shreds despite being one of the greatest composers for the piano.
Last edited by achoo42; 10/24/20 01:21 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 122
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 122 |
Gotta laugh! ‘Humans’ can’t just share a passion, they have to yell & scream their passion is better. This is a Ford/Chevy, blondes/brunette thing. Can’t we just agree we love the piano and enjoy.
|
|
|
|
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,405
Posts3,349,434
Members111,637
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|