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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3030599 09/30/20 01:59 PM
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It does not make sense to fully build a piano by hand since the modern technology can do a lot of things better with machine and computer than hand. I agree that the "handbuilt" label is mainly to emphasize that there's much more dedication to the piano in that a worker spends more time on the piano hence lower production and higher price.

I'm looking for a piano that has a clean, precise tone and excellent action. Also don't want to kill the wallet. I know that both kawai and yamaha are the best at this but from my experience I found the GX and the CX both lacking when playing the likes of Rachmaninoff or Ravel that may be a bit to heavy on notes at sections. It seemed to me that the pianos were very great but produced a muddled sound when playing lots of keys at once especially on dissonant chords. I'm hoping that the higher tier Japanese pianos can handle such. They're presumably cheaper than the Steinway and I've only heard great reviews from owners.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
j&j #3030601 09/30/20 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
According to Jethro’s experience and my experience with the CF4 it would be a piano I would play just to hear it sing rather than practice.

Pianoloverus - I didn’t bring my piano into the discussion. I’m trying to reform. smile
Do you have to keep bringing up your piano? crazy


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Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
hydrodog #3030602 09/30/20 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hydrodog
It does not make sense to fully build a piano by hand since the modern technology can do a lot of things better with machine and computer than hand. I agree that the "handbuilt" label is mainly to emphasize that there's much more dedication to the piano in that a worker spends more time on the piano hence lower production and higher price.

I'm looking for a piano that has a clean, precise tone and excellent action. Also don't want to kill the wallet. I know that both kawai and yamaha are the best at this but from my experience I found the GX and the CX both lacking when playing the likes of Rachmaninoff or Ravel that may be a bit to heavy on notes at sections. It seemed to me that the pianos were very great but produced a muddled sound when playing lots of keys at once especially on dissonant chords. I'm hoping that the higher tier Japanese pianos can handle such. They're presumably cheaper than the Steinway and I've only heard great reviews from owners.

If improved clarity and richness of tone is what you are looking for the hand built models from these Japanese manufacturers won't disappoint, but there are others somewhat within possible price range from America and Europe that you may want to look at as well.


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
j&j #3030633 09/30/20 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by hydrodog
Regarding Yamaha and Kawai can anyone share their experience on how much better the SK series is compared to the GX or the CF is compared to the CX. Was thinking of getting the SK or the CF pianos as a potential upgrade in the future. I know they are both handbuilt and some of the best pianos but is the improvement in sound much better and worth the upgrade.
As far as I know no pianos today are hand built. Some pianos have more non machine work in certain parts of the manufacturing than others. Many parts of piano manufacture can be done far better by computer controlled machinery than by hand.

No one can say definitively if a certain amount of improvement in performance is "worth" the higher price. Is a $50 dinner worth the price compared to a $25 dinner?

Even if the CFs and Shigerus aren’t fully hand made both piano lines require a great deal of precision voicing, regulation, and tuning before they leave the factory so that even an intermediate amateur can appreciate the difference.
No one's claiming those pianos don't have a lot more human work done on them vs. the lesser models in those makers lineups, but I don't think they or any piano today is even close to being "fully hand made".

Last edited by pianoloverus; 09/30/20 03:24 PM.
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
j&j #3030641 09/30/20 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
According to Jethro’s experience and my experience with the CF4 it would be a piano I would play just to hear it sing rather than practice.

Pianoloverus - I didn’t bring my piano into the discussion. I’m trying to reform. smile
Yes just be good now ! ! ! ........just say what is correct, SAUTER PIANOS 💐 💐 💐 Spaichingen🌻 Germany (hand made pianos)
ESTONIA incredible grand pianos 🇪🇪 (hand made pianos)

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/30/20 03:43 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3030696 09/30/20 06:23 PM
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FWIW

Yamaha U1 vs Kawai K-300 Upright Piano Comparison, Review & Demo



Enjoy!


~Lucubrate


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Steingraeber 130

“First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.“ ~Epictetus
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3030698 09/30/20 06:39 PM
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I turned it off when he said the U1 is a high tension scale so the strings are a bit shorter.


Semipro Tech
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3030700 09/30/20 06:45 PM
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hold on, let me grab another bag of popcorn

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
rkzhao #3030704 09/30/20 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rkzhao
hold on, let me grab another bag of popcorn
Yes do that I may need two extra strength Tylenol tablets.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/30/20 06:53 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
rkzhao #3030705 09/30/20 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rkzhao
hold on, let me grab another bag of popcorn

While you're up, ask them to change the marquee to "Stu Harrison v. PianoWorld."


Daily driver: Kawai MP11SE
First crush: Kawai GL10
Current fling: Petrof III
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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
hydrodog #3030707 09/30/20 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hydrodog
It does not make sense to fully build a piano by hand since the modern technology can do a lot of things better with machine and computer than hand. I agree that the "handbuilt" label is mainly to emphasize that there's much more dedication to the piano in that a worker spends more time on the piano hence lower production and higher price.

I'm looking for a piano that has a clean, precise tone and excellent action. Also don't want to kill the wallet. I know that both kawai and yamaha are the best at this but from my experience I found the GX and the CX both lacking when playing the likes of Rachmaninoff or Ravel that may be a bit to heavy on notes at sections. It seemed to me that the pianos were very great but produced a muddled sound when playing lots of keys at once especially on dissonant chords. I'm hoping that the higher tier Japanese pianos can handle such. They're presumably cheaper than the Steinway and I've only heard great reviews from owners.

My wife and I recently watched a movie called "Note by Note, The Making of Steinway L1037". Very well done, showed a lot of the skilled workers and how much of the piano is in fact hand-crafted.

The final tuner had an interesting observation. He stated that it takes a human touch to bring out the full character of an individual piano, something that cannot be replicated by a computer without making pianos sound too similar, like a digital keyboard.

Last edited by Buzz209; 09/30/20 07:00 PM.

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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
BDB #3030710 09/30/20 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BDB
I turned it off when he said the U1 is a high tension scale so the strings are a bit shorter.
So then you missed the part where he said the Kawai K300 has lower tension and longer bass strings.


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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Buzz209 #3030712 09/30/20 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Buzz209
My wife and I recently watched a movie called "Note by Note, The Making of Steinway L1037". Very well done, showed a lot of the skilled workers and how much of the piano is in fact hand-crafted.

The final tuner had an interesting observation. He stated that it takes a human touch to bring out the full character of an individual piano, something that cannot be replicated by a computer without making pianos sound too similar, like a digital keyboard.
I think that movie is at least 13 years old(and the book even older), and the amount of work done by machine at Steinway has increased. Also, since Steinway knows that "handmade" will be a good marketing tool for some buyers, isn't it obvious they will emphasize that in the move, which is a commercial for Steinway? Finally, although Steinway likes to advertise that their instruments are very individual, others would say that this is just evidence of inconsistency in production.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 09/30/20 07:29 PM.
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3030759 09/30/20 10:55 PM
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I was interested in the comments about Sofia and Bulgaria. Anyone interested should probably take a look at:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2974835/piano-party-2021-bulgaria.html#Post2974835


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Carey #3030760 09/30/20 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by BDB
I turned it off when he said the U1 is a high tension scale so the strings are a bit shorter.
So then you missed the part where he said the Kawai K300 has lower tension and longer bass strings.

As so often has been shown around here, the world of piano hype has no room for physics!


Semipro Tech
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
BDB #3030781 10/01/20 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BDB
Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by BDB
I turned it off when he said the U1 is a high tension scale so the strings are a bit shorter.
So then you missed the part where he said the Kawai K300 has lower tension and longer bass strings.

As so often has been shown around here, the world of piano hype has no room for physics!

I asked this during the discussion on the first video but I'm not sure if anyone ever responded. Did any one of the numerous objective experts here ever clarify whether Stu is actually wrong about Yamaha using a higher tension scale design than Kawai? The string length at least by spec (#1 bass string) is listed to be longer in Kawai.

In case there any confusion, I believe to obey the laws of physics, higher tension, shorter string, would just require greater mass in the strings.

Last edited by rkzhao; 10/01/20 01:21 AM.
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
BDB #3030785 10/01/20 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by BDB
I turned it off when he said the U1 is a high tension scale so the strings are a bit shorter.

Exactly


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
rkzhao #3030788 10/01/20 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rkzhao
I asked this during the discussion on the first video but I'm not sure if anyone ever responded. Did any one of the numerous objective experts here ever clarify whether Stu is actually wrong about Yamaha using a higher tension scale design than Kawai? The string length at least by spec (#1 bass string) is listed to be longer in Kawai.

In case there any confusion, I believe to obey the laws of physics, higher tension, shorter string, would just require greater mass in the strings.

Yes, a thicker string requires more tension. But a short, thick string would probably lose clarity and sustain. Clarity and sustain are common characteristics of Yamaha’s tone so the claim doesn’t compute.

I wish I had a scale chart of the two pianos.


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
WBLynch #3030804 10/01/20 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by WBLynch
I’m happy to read some light hearted banter.

In response to
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
I think any intelligent person watching these videos will know that Stu is associated with a piano dealer, and in this case, that they sell Kawai’s and used Yamaha’s.

Actually it is not clear as they do not mention that they are a seller of new Kawai or used anything else. It became obvious to me because I have a strong BS detector. I don’t care to google search everything as it’s a waste of my time.

I don’t care what piano anyone likes or chooses to buy, I just can’t stand BS. And Stu’s comparison videos are reeking of it.

That's only because these videos are being treated as reviews when they are really adverts. As adverts they aren't worse than most things.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
gwing #3030838 10/01/20 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gwing
Originally Posted by WBLynch
I’m happy to read some light hearted banter.

In response to
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
I think any intelligent person watching these videos will know that Stu is associated with a piano dealer, and in this case, that they sell Kawai’s and used Yamaha’s.

Actually it is not clear as they do not mention that they are a seller of new Kawai or used anything else. It became obvious to me because I have a strong BS detector. I don’t care to google search everything as it’s a waste of my time.

I don’t care what piano anyone likes or chooses to buy, I just can’t stand BS. And Stu’s comparison videos are reeking of it.

That's only because these videos are being treated as reviews when they are really adverts. As adverts they aren't worse than most things.
They are adverts but in the video the sales person treats them as unbiased reviews. That's what some posters don't like.

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