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Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
#3030574 09/30/20 01:34 PM
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Recently I found a non restored Blüthner Model 10 from 1936 for $9300 or €7930. Judging by the pictures it seems well preserved. The lady that sells it said it belongs to her mother, and they need to get rid of it since her mother comes to live with her and she has no space for the piano in the house. It's been on sale for a year as of now. Her mother was also the first owner.

Her mother was a musicologist. The piano was played by her and her daughter (the lady I contacted) when she went to music school. The piano is kept in a room which had the average temperature of 20 degrees Celsius. It was moved only once by an experienced team and tuned by an experienced person.

I've been said the piano is in perfect condition, and that it only needs to be tuned and that the felt needs to be "tidied" (probably referring to the felt on the hammers). There are also a few pictures of the piano on this Google Drive link: https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1wZt95qTPMd9uYEVNbFsfbHWAE2QdfsKw

Would this a good deal for such a Blüthner from 1936? I will need to drive about 9 hours to see it in person, so if anyone more experienced than me is willing to shed some thoughts if it's worth it, I would be immensely thankful. Regards.

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030591 09/30/20 02:19 PM
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i dont think. holyy. you can find easily any grand bluthner starting from 190 cm ( model 6) less than 3500$ ( not restored) i bought my bluthner 210 cm 1885 for 2800 $ and it wasn't even in a bad shape

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030662 09/30/20 05:16 PM
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OK I just need to ask with these old and ( older) Bluthners, since they are not restored...... 1885 and 1936 , can one still play quickly , smoothly , clear trills and other ornaments ? Also can one one still play quickly with a good dynamic range ?
I am just curious because while I have played some older pianos , the tone is sometimes still good , but the action is often not very good .
These were not Performance Grade pianos however.

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030702 09/30/20 07:50 PM
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Ivan I don't believe this is such a good deal to be honest. By the way it's not a model 10. Model 10 is the current designation for this size, but if this is the 5'6 Blüthner it's the "Style VI". They are good pianos but this piano is old, and the owner's assessment on what work needs done is not something I'd take very seriously.

As small grands go, this is one of the best designs ever made, so it has that going for it, but if you're planning to use this as a serious practice instrument, it will require extensive work. In Europe, small grands from good makers are a valuable asset and more desired than large pianos as domestic instruments because of the comparatively smaller houses and apartments there. On balance I would say that this piano should sell for somewhere between €2000 and €4000. A top price I'd be willing to pay would be €4500.

LadyBird, sometimes these non-restored pianos actually function very well. I don't know why that happens, but it does depending on how the piano has been looked after and depending on the atmospheric conditions over the piano's life. Sometimes they're absolute junk of course!

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030703 09/30/20 07:53 PM
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It depends on where you live. In Europe you can pick up old Blüthners for much less than that, assuming no work has been done on it. A properly restored Blüthner is a different matter. These can be quite expensive, as they are glorious pianos.

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030756 09/30/20 11:41 PM
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Ladybird, absolutely you can play them very rapidly! They will function more quickly than a pianist! I don't mean an isiot like me, I mean a professional concert pianist.

Addressing the question I would amplify what Jo has said. That seems like too much. Even if, and this is a ridiculous assumption, what the person selling it is correct.

Having said all that it could be an excellent piano. Bluthner of that period is synonymous with quality. The aliquot strings give a sizzle which is unavailable anywhere else.

Am I biased? Of course I am.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030767 10/01/20 01:20 AM
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Pianist_Ivan, welcome to the forum! You've given yourself a good launch with this query.

We are looking at too many holes in the narrative to give you much of an answer. For one thing, we know nothing about your needs as a pianist, which trumps any other considerations. Maybe this piano is good for someone else, but not for you. You have to know that a piano that old will require some expensive work to perform as it was designed to do. There are persons for whom this would be just fine; perhaps they have a suitable practice instrument already, and have an income which would easily restore a piano from Europe's golden age.

This is all a mystery at the present.

Then there is the critical question of condition. It would be very good if you go to this piano, and see if you still like it once you play, see, and hear. I realize this is a long trip for you, but it's a critical step. If after that you are still serious, the piano should be inspected for condition by a qualified piano technician. This person can open the case and read the piano's history, and foretell its future. The report will be very valuable in many ways, but you will be able make decisions based on this information. Is it worth restoring? What will it cost and how long will it take? What level of restoration would be justified, and what should one expect, given this, from it, as a musical instrument, given this level of restoration? What is the piano's cash value in the local market, in its present condition?

Best of luck with this. And, write again and let us know how it goes, or to get opinions.

After that,read "The Piano Shop on the West Bank" by Thad Carhart. If nothing else, it will help your nerves relax, and you will learn a littoe something about the trade and the world of pianos.


Clef

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030784 10/01/20 02:51 AM
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Thanks ,
To think I have not tried such amazing, older pianos !
I bet the tone is very different from what we hear today as well.

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Lady Bird #3030806 10/01/20 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Thanks ,
To think I have not tried such amazing, older pianos !
I bet the tone is very different from what we hear today as well.

+1

Can't wait to try such a nice old Bluthner.

One thing I don't fully understand. People around here always warn about old piano's, and probably rightfully so, but normally I read these warnings when piano's are 30+ years old. I understand, condition is everything, but usually a 40+ old piano is seen as "getting long in the tooth" and such.

Yet I read comments about old piano's like this, almost 100 years old, or even older, are often still great piano's. Are piano's of a good brand like Bluthner of an age like this just build very well, so they can last this long?

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
U3piano #3030835 10/01/20 06:43 AM
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[/i]
Originally Posted by U3piano
One thing I don't fully understand. People around here always warn about old piano's, and probably rightfully so, but normally I read these warnings when piano's are 30+ years old. I understand, condition is everything, but usually a 40+ old piano is seen as "getting long in the tooth" and such.

Yet I read comments about old piano's like this, almost 100 years old, or even older, are often still great piano's. Are piano's of a good brand like Bluthner of an age like this just build very well, so they can last this long?
I think some people romanticize old pianos by high end makers. I haven't read most of this thread but most near hundred year old pianos are in pretty horrible condition and often considered as "shells" requiring full rebuilding. Perhaps the pictures you posted or other information you gave convinced some that the Bluthner being discussed does not fit into that category. In general, most PW posters are not going to say [i]without some evidence
that it's likely that some 100 year old piano is in good shape.

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030863 10/01/20 08:30 AM
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I once tried out of curiosity a small Sauter grand from about 1950 .Its tone was still beautiful, action not too bad , one note stuck , but that was not a problem. It could have been well restored according to the rebuilder. The action was was quick
and light , I cannot remember all the details.

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030953 10/01/20 12:52 PM
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Oh don't get me wrong here, I'm of the opinion that without rebuilding, a 70 to 100 year old piano is going to be pretty much useless as a full time practice instrument. It may have a certain charm in the tone, it may even have a very high quality tone. It may be that the pin-block is still holding although in a rebuild job on a piano that age you would hope that it's replaced, and it may even be that the soundboard is in excellent shape in which case the rebuilder can save it. It's likely though that the strings are oxidised and out of shape, require replacement, it's likely that the tuning won't be as pure as it was when it was new, it's likely that the dynamic range of the piano is unsatisfactory, it's likely that the action needs rebuilt or replaced.

It's perfectly possible that these old pianos sound nice as they are, since there are many that do, but they don't perform well enough to be considered good practice instruments. That said, during my doctoral degree here I'm practicing on instruments that I wouldn't even convert into garden sheds and right now I'd probably welcome the chance to practice on a clapped out 1930s Blüthner.

As a core for rebuilding, the Blüthner baby grands from the 1930s are amongst the finest of the European small grands, and of course there are other makes worthy of consideration if your top priority is getting a good instrument. If your priority is resale value, don't buy an old grand and have it rebuilt although having an old grand rebuilt can be a more economical way of buying a fine piano than finding a young or new one.

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030963 10/01/20 01:18 PM
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I understand, Bluthner and C Bechstein I know are the top , I can imagine just how well these are made to last .Those pianos made in those days were just made in this incredible way , many I am sure would be amazing even without a full
restoration.
Then you also have a unique sound quality that is lost. So I
have only had a chance to play the modern instruments. I am
just thinking of Phillips description of the tone and others I have heard on YouTube......one day ....when the virus is
over perhaps.
..

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030987 10/01/20 02:08 PM
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Bluthner actually largely follows the design of their early models except for some modernisation that has happened in recent decades, so the rims are heavier, and the tone design is more projecting, but you can still hear the DNA in the Blüthner providing the technician working on it understands the piano. They work incredibly well if they are voiced very softly and then played in by the pianist, and re-voiced after, but of course that's a long process. Bösendorfer too have that similar magic in the tone, and actually the Yamaha SX series are kind of along these lines as well. As for C.Bechstein, well they changed their designs in the last 20 years to something much more closely resembling a Hamburg Steinway, although I'd say that they are still distinct enough to be recognised as a different voice. The difference is that while a Bösendorfer and Blüthner can largely be voiced into something like their predecessor models (with some important differences, of course, and why shouldn't there be, since time moves on), the Bechstein really can't because it's an entirely different design. The Bechstein is a beautifully made and wonderful piano, of course. The Blüthner concert grand of today though, is quite different from the Blüthner concert grand of 1920. It's now far more powerful, with a much greater dynamic range and is in many ways more versatile, but it isn't as sweet and it isn't as intimate. They're now adapting their sound to be acceptable in much larger halls.

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3030994 10/01/20 02:28 PM
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Very interesting Joe, thank you.

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3031050 10/01/20 05:32 PM
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Yes ,interesting, thank you Joe !

Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3031157 10/02/20 02:52 AM
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C Bechstein and Bluthner. My absolute favourites.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3031300 10/02/20 12:02 PM
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I’ve never had the pleasure to see or play a Bluthner. From the Bluthner fans, what makes these pianos such a delight to play?


J & J
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I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
j&j #3031612 10/03/20 09:52 AM
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Well, so many things, hard to say just one... I think it would be clearer when you try a well prep model preferably over 190cm. But in a few words, they are beautiful, unique voices, complex, super elegant. Never miss a chance to try one.


Fluxo

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Re: Is a Blüthner Model 10 (1936) a good deal for $9300 (€7930)?
Pianist_Ivan #3031659 10/03/20 01:17 PM
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They make a very pleasant noise when you hit the keys. The bit towards the right is especially good. It sizzles.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
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