Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Which digital piano feels most like an acoustic?

I've been in a very similar situation only last year when I decided to take up piano studies again after an eternity of not playing. At that time I knew absolutely nothing about DP:s and turned to my piano contact at Steinway in Stockholm asking for advice on a good DP. I also wanted a nice living-room worthy cabinet.

He recommended the Kawai CS11 (think it's a GF2) which I bought new for about £3.300. After that I've purchased one 1982 Yamaha U1 acoustic and one new Kawai MP11SE (£2.000). And my impression is that these three pianos are remarkably similar as far as touch is concerned. So within your budget I would recommend the MP11SE, which sports a GF mechanism that feels just wonderful for my fingers. Others MMV of course, but I thought maybe this comparison could be of some use to you. Good luck in your search.

BTW - I tried out the U1 before I bought it, but both DP:s were bought unseen online. A bit scary, but worked out fine (for me).

PS. A low budget alternative that I used for some time was the Korg D1. Not bad at all for around £520.

Which digital piano feels, and sounds, exactly like playing a Steinway Model D? If there isn't one there should be, that'll be the only next DP I'll be buying.

A Steinway D retrofitted with Silent Piano connected to Ivory 2 American Concert D or another VST (there are plenty Steinway D libraries available).

I know you tried being hyperbolic, but the task isn't actually hard to accomplish. If you want something to play like your grand, you MIDIfy your grand (either in the factory before buying it or aftermarket), then connect it to a digital piano of your choice.

There is really no need to play folded actions or listen to Casio sounds, if you don't want to and can spend the budget.

Alpha Piano uses an expensive Renner action, maybe very similar to the Renner action in a Steinway D.

I have a similar profile as OP.

My realisation was kawai NV10 has "real damper pedal action" which is important for my learner child, enough that I consider the us$11000odd price tag. Only thing holding me back is durability - how much faster does it wear and tear? If it can last with similar action for 15 years, i would go for it. But I suspect even if I want to spend to refurbish the action after 10 years, it may not be practical or affordable considering a model like this with a small market doesn't get good support in my country Singapore. Another worry is, no show room model to try, just in case the action somehow missed my expectation of what realistic means. Pity because if local distributor realises how strong this pedal selling point is, they would consider bringing in a show room demo piece. Problem is, most people don't seem to appreciate the usefulness of damper pedal action simulation.

Check that feature our, it's the only model that has it. It simply means, it has key action like acoustic when you don't press the sustain pedal. And it also has same action like acoustic when you press. No other DP yet does this.

Other DPs can only best do this: have a very similar action matching an acoustic with sustain pedal pressed all the time. This is because acoustics keys lighten when you press sustain pedal. If you don't mind this, and most hobbyists don't, CA79 is my recommendation followed by CLP-745.

Buyers of CLP-785 are trying to replicate acoustic action without pressing sustain pedal, which means it stimulates the heavier key action of an acoustic when played with no sustain. 785 is still a little lighter than acoustics with sustain not depressed, but very close.

I wish there is a silent piano that does not have the problem of increased distance between hammers and strings due to the silent bar. This is a significant limitation to play I suppose the pp and the ppp dynamics. Just single p is still ok but try playing softer and compare with acoustic. The keys don't hit the same way as you slowly gently depress. It's obvious.

Any particular reason you think this? The Millennium III action in the NV-10 is exactly the same as in Kawai's acoustic pianos, so if the acoustics can last 15+ years (and I suspect generally they last MUCH, MUCH longer than that), without major regulation needed, the same would hold of the NV-10. In fact, I would suspect that the hybrid may require less regulation, since there are aspects to acoustic regulation that don't affect the hybrid (e.g., hammer shape, shank position, damper wires/felt position, etc.).

Doesn't the NV5 also have a real damper action?

But yes, if you want a real grand piano action then the NV10 is the only one at the moment.

But for me the limitation on speed/efficiency of learning by having two different actions depending on whether the pedal is depressed is a reason not to own an acoustic - a big advantage of a digital, especially for beginners.

For a beginner musician you want the very least number of reasons why they won't fall in love with playing the instrument.

Yes it does.

Speaking of actions - has anyone heard/seen what action is inside the new Dexibell H10?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OomaW_-Ief4

Is it an existing Fatar, a new Fatar, or something like a Renner?!

Interesting how Dexibell are former Roland staff.

The tech specs state "TP-400 W (Hybrid, Wood & Plastic): 88 Keys - Weighted, Hammer action,Triple contact Ivory & Ebony feels Escapement".
https://www.dexibell.com/prodotto/vivo-h10/?lang=en

It mentions user temperaments too, interesting since Roland's are usually fixed to ET.

Hmm, and from the manual the H10 offers -99.99 to +99.99 cents per note. KJ take note :-) Looks interesting to me, though here in Aus it seems to cost almost double the CA79.

I don’t know, but it is cut under a waning moon, the wood!

Thanks! Good to stand corrected there are 2 models with damper pedal key action, NV-5 & NV-10 ! Really hope we get to the day when competition arrives.

Great to also know that with that significant investment, millennium key action being the same, and potentially being exposed to less wear due to no actual hitting of strings, might even have a chance to outlast acoustic keys? And since it's almost the same action, perhaps repairs may be nearly just as available as for millennium acoustic pianos, except maybe for some parts unique to digitals. The local distributor provides only 1 year warranty which is really unfair for the price being charged.

Children would mostly be exposed to one key weight until they get tall enough to reach pedals or use extenders, so the confusion with two weights may not come so early. By the time they get to try sustain, they are probably experienced enough to be able to handle two different weights. I'm lucky to not yet face a problem inspiring one of my children. Have to prep for the second child - boys are little harder to convince ... My portasound is on standby to help inspire.

I hope to one day but something like NV-10 but whole waiting to commit and for market to compete. I'll aim for a US$2000-4000 used acoustic.

I'm actually hoping for the opposite:
The day they solve this problem in acoustics!
E.g. they have power-dampers that raise automatically when keys are pressed, rather than sapping the energy from the player's fingers

This is not "problem" in acoustic pianos. When the pedal is down, a light touch is preferable, as it eases playing virtuous literature.*) When playing older polyphonic music OTOH, a decent key weights helps with not accidentally raising a damper (which doesn't matter for works using pedal).

So, while everyone wants to have his digital play like a grand, nobody whats his grand piano play like a digital.

*) The hammer escapement missing in folded action helps further with it. Playing virtuous on a escapement-less, damper-less digital is a strain with a big risk for injury.

Though this might be possible, wouldn't it make a digital piano LESS like an acoustic?
And ... isn't the lack of actual dampers already a "feature" of nearly all digital pianos ... EXCEPT FOR the Novus?

(Or were you seeking these "power dampers" in an acoustic piano?)

There are four occasions where we can measure key weight of an acoustic piano:

1. Key up: heavy (hammer and damper weight on the key)
2. Key down: lighter (hammer escaped)
3. Key up with pedal: less heavy (damper lifted) - here we get the 50 grams number
4. Key down with pedal: lightest (damper lifted and hammer escaped)

Digital piano folded actions get three of those four wrong:

1. Key up: heavy - right
2. Key down: heavy - wrong (hammer weight still on)
3. Key up with pedal: heavy - wrong (hammer weight doesn't get lighter)
4. Key down with pedal: heavy - wrong (hammer weight still on, doesn't get lighter)

No wonder that people consider digital actions as "too heavy". They are. Obviously you can make the digital action lighter, by turning the first right into a wrong as well.

Key weight on an acoustic piano varies all the time and from bass to treble as well, which integrates well with actual music written for the instrument. That's why the idea of making the keys all the same weight is just stupid. You can have that by simply buying an organ/synth action.

I understand the theiretical point you're making, but in practice, one of the biggest issues I have with many of the compact (slab style, i.e. folded) actions is that the push back is too severe. On a real piano, it takes almost no effort at all to keep a key pressed down, iand as you lift your finger, you don't feel "pushed" up at all. On lots of these DPs, the keys do push up at you.

The biggest basic design difference between piano and organ/synth actions has nothing to do with whether or not all the keys are the same weight. The relatively few "balanced" (non-graded) hammer actions still feel MUCH more like a piano than an organ/synth action does.

If you split the keyboard in different zones for different voices, it wont feel natural. That's why usually high end synths don't have graded hammer actions so that the zones feel the same while you're playing different voices.

To me it doesn't matter but to some it matters. I learned this here.

You misread it: "Key up" means the key weight when "key is up". The weight force needed to hold the key down is designated as "Key down". And of course that weight is wrong on a folded action: way too heavy.