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Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
tony3304 #3029276 09/26/20 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tony3304
While I was looking and trying several pianos, most pianos were voiced to warmer and roundish tone.

I prefer cold, clear and strong metallic tone but pianos were voiced in oppoiste way all same way.

Do most people prefer warm and roundish tone?
I differentiate these two things: voicing and tone.

Usually I don't use words "cold" and "warm" to describe voicing. I say, "soft voicing", or "hard voicing", because that's what it is - softening or hardening of the hammers.

And I say "warm/cold tone" or "mellow/bright tone" to describe the fundamental sound of a piano beyond what can be adjusted by voicing.

Originally Posted by tony3304
Do most people prefer warm and roundish tone?
If we talk about people who buy their first piano, I'd say yes. For someone who can play and who owned the piano before it depends on their favourite repertoire and the piano they had before.

Last edited by Iaroslav Vasiliev; 09/26/20 11:21 AM.
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
CyberGene #3029278 09/26/20 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Here’s a funny video with apparently virtuoso pianist playing a W. Hoffmann piano at home:

Yeah, quite funny and ... good to know that he is a pro. At first I thought that he is quite a bit more advanced than me (very significantly).


W.Hoffmann T122, Roland FP-50, Roland RD-64
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
pianoloverus #3029297 09/26/20 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
I like a piano that can do everything, depending on how I play it.
Well you are lucky terminaldegree, (or unlucky ?) , you are a performer, a technician, and a professor of music.I am sure you can voice your piano how you like for a certain repertoire, then voice it different for another different repertoire. So yes I am sure you can make your piano sound However you like.
He said, "depending on how I play it" not "depending on how I voice it". It would be incredibly impractical to voice a piano differently depending on which repertoire one was playing at that moment. In fact, since most people play a variety of repertoire trying to voice a piano depending on the repertoire would not even be possible.
I was JOKING pianoloverus !!!

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/26/20 12:06 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
VladK #3029307 09/26/20 12:34 PM
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The American Baldwin has always been my favorite tone. Too bad they’re gone now. I’ve not seen nor played on the new ones from China.

Originally Posted by VladK
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Surely you do not mean mettalic ? Perhaps you a mean purer more mellow tone. It is difficult to describe tone .
He probably means something like this where strings are more pronounced than body?



-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
VladK #3029313 09/26/20 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by VladK
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Surely you do not mean mettalic ? Perhaps you a mean purer more mellow tone. It is difficult to describe tone .
He probably means something like this where strings are more pronounced than body?

What on earth do you show this video for ? This is a beautiful sounding piano with a full rich tone .I.once sat down at a piano where it was EXTREMELY bright ,to the point of being mettalic .It was as if hammers were made of wood or
metal.The "actual mettalic, mechanical" sounds of the piano were in the tone of upper treble .So yes , a very negative experience !
Beautiful, resonant sounds like this piano is NOT what my negative perception of what a "mettalic" tone is.
That is your idea and hopefully the OP's idea.
So yes if thats mettalic, go for it.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/26/20 12:56 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
Gretel #3029322 09/26/20 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Gretel
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Here’s a funny video with apparently virtuoso pianist playing a W. Hoffmann piano at home:

Yeah, quite funny and ... good to know that he is a pro. At first I thought that he is quite a bit more advanced than me (very significantly).
I have heard and played a W Hoffmann which sounded far better than that. You cannot tell much about the piano if the pianist is only doing acrobatics at the piano.
Perhaps he will play more musical after he ate his pizza.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/26/20 01:07 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
tony3304 #3029353 09/26/20 03:23 PM
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Lady Bird: Not sure what you mean. Maybe I need to rephrase my post? Here we go:
At first I was pretty astonished by his proficiency (far exceeding my own), and was then relieved to learn that he is actually a professional - so no need to compare my playing with his, and feel bad about it.
By the way I think the piano sounds great. If you think his playing was unmusical - well, it was a funny video about some crazy practicing.


W.Hoffmann T122, Roland FP-50, Roland RD-64
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
tony3304 #3029358 09/26/20 03:32 PM
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I am not feeling bad Gretel and am not comparing anyone's playing .As you say it is just meant to be funny 😄
No stress!

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/26/20 03:40 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
tony3304 #3029376 09/26/20 04:30 PM
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Clear minds , clear sound compared with metallic .

https://youtu.be/Hyej4DWjMqs



https://youtu.be/YPCKbVatgRs

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/26/20 04:35 PM. Reason: missing text
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
terminaldegree #3029434 09/26/20 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well you are lucky terminaldegree, (or unlucky ?) , you are a performer, a technician, and a professor of music.I am sure you can voice your piano how you like for a certain repertoire,
then voice it different for another different repertoire. So yes
I am sure you can make your piano sound However you like.
(Owen , excuse me for being so "cheeky")

No problem, Lady Bird!
Right now, knowing a few ancillary skills related to piano performance/teaching feels more like a curse than a blessing...I spent 7 1/2 hours in a hall yesterday for a scheduled 90 minute dress rehearsal, counting placing and troubleshooting some lighting and recording equipment and a few things with the piano. I started actually practicing around midnight...

My piano tech ability/knowledge is still pretty basic, so my approaches to regulation and particularly voicing are pretty conservative and limited in scope.
Having said that I’ll touch up voicing a handful of notes on my own piano or do something minor to the whole piano every couple of tunings, typically. But I’m not going to fundamentally change the character of my piano.
Well I hope the performances all go well ! ( I am sure they will )
I can imagine you must be extremely busy, then you review pianos for Piano Buyer and still help people find pianos here !

Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
Lady Bird #3029613 09/27/20 02:16 PM
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The same also with may Sauter piano.


VuongMinh Duc
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
Vuong #3029744 09/27/20 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Vuong
The same also with may Sauter piano.
What is the same Vuong ?

Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
tony3304 #3030391 09/29/20 07:33 PM
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"Most people". Most people don't play, like, or understand classical music. They like the "cocktail piano" sound, if they have any opinion at all. A baby grand is just fine for them, especially if it is painted white.
Most musicians, on the other hand, like a clear, ringing tone.

Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
Lady Bird #3030552 09/30/20 11:23 AM
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What you describe about your Sauter piano and your ability to make it sound the way you want, apply also to my Sauter piano.


VuongMinh Duc
Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
pianoloverus #3031731 10/03/20 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think this thread once again shows how difficult it is to talk about tone and how some people use the same words to mean different things. I think some posters have even said contradictory things in their posts. For example, I don't think "clear" is the opposite of "mellow".

I think this article by Sally Phillips from the Piano Buyer gives a good description of how tone is described at least by a piano technician:
https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/voicing-and-tone/
Unless I missed it, the article left out one of the most important tonal qualities of a piano-- the balance of the sound of the initial percussive hammer blow and the soundboard resonance/sustain, sometimes called the bloom.


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Re: Do most people like warm and soft tone?
tony3304 #3032310 10/05/20 11:40 AM
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Like many said, it’s so hard to discuss tone with words (or even recordings). I wish we had objectively measurable ways (decibels, hertz, etc.) that could also encompass the hall acoustics, then we could really compare our taste objectively, but alas, not an option.

I have two points to add. On the personal, subjective side, I’d like to point to the possibility that one’s preference in the clear-warm spectrum (or whatever you decide to call it) can be innate but also formed by prior experience and exposure. I was very used to the clear metallic sound of my 30-yr old Yamaha upright, so all new or newer grand pianos I tried sounded too muffled to my ears, with their harmonics and new hammers. It took a while to get used to them and to rediscover the different layers within that new category (with pleasure).

The second, more general observation about trend: It seems like, at least among the classical bunch, people seem to associate warmer, rounded tones to higher end European pianos and clearer sounds to Yamaha, which has recently been trying to imitate the rounder, warmer sounds. So, yeah, I’d say there’s that trend, at least in discourse. That said, every piano is different, every ear is different, every piece is so different (I’d hate to play French impressionist music on harpsichord-like piano!), and every room is so different. And often, to performer’s ears/feel, it’s a combination of sound, action, location that make or break the piano’s fit. Making this discussion a bit moot.


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