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Re: Naive commenters saying reverb is why some vsts are better
joemama42O #3030187 09/29/20 08:26 AM
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I find the best with pianoteq is, if you have 4 speakers surround system, to place the two front microphones on the front speakers and then place two back monitors on the surround speakers.

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Re: Naive commenters saying reverb is why some vsts are better
joemama42O #3030346 09/29/20 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by joemama42O
Video

For some reason, people who have no experience in piano playing have decided to form strong opinions on why higher end VSTs sound more realistic than lower end/free VSTs. It's sad how some people could have 0 knowledge/experience in a subject, yet create an opinion so easily and quickly.

You described the Pianoworld forum with that as well.

Re: Naive commenters saying reverb is why some vsts are better
joemama42O #3030367 09/29/20 06:13 PM
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Don't mistake a rant for a fact-filled observation. How often do we hear generalizations made, intended to be take as truth, but supported by no facts? Too often.

Re: Naive commenters saying reverb is why some vsts are better
joemama42O #3030403 09/29/20 08:03 PM
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I see reverb as a soundesign tool to be used or misused, by those who understand its function and perhaps those that may only have a cursory understanding of it. I also believe that opinions on what constitutes a good piano sound will vary widely depending on the opinionator's musical tastes. With that said, I'll just add my opinion now! smile

I believe it's true that reverb – especially an overabundance of it – can be a cover-up. But on a simpler level, I very much appreciate a good convolution reverb that imparts a sense of "space" when I'm listening to myself playing a decent virtual piano at home. This is much more evident when I wear headphones, of course. Through speakers, you're effectively projecting the sound of a "piano in a space" into a room with surfaces that are doing the same thing – sort of a "dual layer" of "spaciousness" - I really don't know what to call it, but it usually doesn't sound great to me.

When I do gigs, I use an algorithmic reverb but generally keep my sound dry. However I'll often vary the reverb amount somewhat depending on the "density" of the music coming off the stage. On a slow ballad, with lots of space between notes, I do bump up the Rt and verb's mix level because it's easier to hear the sound of the space I'm in – and with everything else echoing, hearing myself too dry causes me to tense up in my playing. I don't enjoy it; my piano sound seems mismatched to everything else. In a sense, I'm acting as a "producer" in a recording studio environment, balancing things so that the totality of the band's sound is unified – to me, anyway.

I'll just add that I do prefer my piano samples dry, for the simple reason that it's much easier to add reverb to a sound than to subtract it!

Re: Naive commenters saying reverb is why some vsts are better
pianophil #3030404 09/29/20 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pianophil
I always found reverb to be a very difficult choice. Each case requires a different reverb, but I think that if one wants to simplify things as much as possible, it reduces to:
* one expects more reverb when listening than when playing, at least if one wants to experiment something similar to a real life situation (usually you play in a small room - unless you are concertist, and listen either life or recorded music produced in concert halls),
* for the same reason, one expects more reverb whit headphones (which do not supply any added reverb) than with loudspeakers where the room itself provides its own natural reverb,
* sampled instruments require less reverb than modelled, the reason being that samples already include builtin the natural reverb where the instrument was recorded, hence adding reverb produces "reverb of the reverb", whereas a modelled sound, which has zero builtin reverb and hence sounds synthetic because our ears are not used to anechoic sounds, requires a certain amount of reverb to get a ratio similar to the real life.

Personally I turn off the reverb when using loudspeakers, whether using sampled or modelled instruments, and when using headphones, I use less reverb with sampled instruments than with modelled instruments.

Philippe (Pianoteq developper)

Thank you and your team for great efforts and work on PTQ. It has refreshed my understanding of modeling VSTs, and I hope it will be better and better in the future.
And I think it goes perfectly with the soundboard speakers without reverb.


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
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