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High pitch ringing around C5
#3029919 09/28/20 02:08 PM
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On my old Kawai GL10, I always noticed a high pitch ringing sound near note C5. I also remember reading a post on PW about that high pitched metallic ring you sometimes get on Asian pianos, so I chalked it up to that.

On my '99 Petrof III, however, I also have that high pitched ringing around C5, so I'm thinking it's not just an Asian piano issue. Try as I might, I can't find anything in my living room that is responsible for that sound. Even nearby light bulbs, the usual suspects, are not causing the ringing. Muting the duplex areas doesn't seem to solve this issue, although I have yet to try putting painter's tape across the entire duplex to see if that stops it. Am I hearing some sort of partial inherent in piano strings? Anybody else notice this in their piano?

Thanks.


Daily driver: Kawai MP11SE
First crush: 2018 Kawai GL10
Current fling (and it's getting serious): 1999 Petrof III
Foster child: 1927 Kurtzmann upright
Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3029950 09/28/20 03:31 PM
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I don't think I've noticed it with C5 (I'll check later), but I seem to remember sometimes having an unpleasant sound in .... E5?? Maybe (will check later)

Do you hear it regardless of how forcefully you play? If you really hammer down on the key, do you still hear it? Or, the converse, if you play that note very softly and gently, does the ringing decrease or is it still present?


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Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3029953 09/28/20 03:40 PM
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Hi SK. It does require an MF or louder blow. Doesn't happen on soft blows. It's pretty obvious every time I hit C5 or an adjacent note, though it's less on the adjacent notes. On my Kawai, it may have been a different note than C5, but it was right around there.


Daily driver: Kawai MP11SE
First crush: 2018 Kawai GL10
Current fling (and it's getting serious): 1999 Petrof III
Foster child: 1927 Kurtzmann upright
Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3029958 09/28/20 03:53 PM
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So it gets worse when you play louder, rather than better?


Started piano June 1999.
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Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3029975 09/28/20 04:24 PM
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Since you've noticed the phenomena on the exact same notes on two different pianos in the same space, it's most likely either something in the room or something specific about how your hearing reacts to this frequency. Or lightning has struck twice! (where was the section break on both pianos?)


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Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3029982 09/28/20 04:35 PM
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I think something in the room near the piano is resonating. I have had this happen to me. Enlist a volunteer so one of you can press the key while the other chase the source of the sound. It could be a picture on the wall, paper clip on a shelf, a light fixture, or something else.

Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3030021 09/28/20 06:22 PM
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I have heard a slight high pitched ringing with my piano when it first arrived in my home during a very cold period here in Vancouver.The temperatures was well below --0°.(unusual for Vancouver)
I cannot remember what the technician did ,and I am still not sure if he fixed it or myself . He suggested I move an old mechanical clock out of the room. Anyway I did as he suggested and the ringing disappeared. No more problems.

Saying that however I often hear high pitched ringing on many
videos here that members have included of thier pianos ( in the very low bass notes) Some of these are top tier instruments, so I think that it may be something I am susceptible to .Sometimes I also hear them in youtube videos advertising different brands.
I am almost sure If I played a slow scale of the lowest bass notes on my piano I may one day (in winter ) hear a slight ringing on one of the bass notes.
Nothing sticks out loudly that may cause me to be distracted when I am playing so I am thankfull for that.

If the sound is loud it must be distracting , however I am sure it is something that a technician can deal with. Of course Emery, you seem to be susceptible to hearing these sounds as well. I thought it was an age related thing so I am relieved !
What note is C5 on the piano? (I presume the lowest C on the piano keyboard ., OK now I am embarrassed! )

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/28/20 06:25 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3030309 09/29/20 04:30 PM
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Emery,

I agree with terminaldegree. Occasionally we have to search a room to find the culprit of the vibration, but the strangest one was a candescent bulb filament (or something inside the bulb). Once the bulb was replaced, the vibration went away.

Of course, without being there, this is only speculation.


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Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3030370 09/29/20 07:36 PM
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Thanks everyone. Incidentally, C5 should be the C above middle C if I'm counting right.

So whenever I had a room-generated vibration, it would come and go. I don't know if it's the changing weather or temperature in my house, or the object got moved, but it always seems to go away. This high pitched ringing (almost dog whistle high), however, seems to always be there, which makes me think maybe it's the piano. I've also heard it in some PW member recordings, but I can't remember who's.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. This at least tells me it's not a widespread problem among pianos. The mystery remains, but it tends to explain why the neighborhood dogs howl when they hear me play.


Daily driver: Kawai MP11SE
First crush: 2018 Kawai GL10
Current fling (and it's getting serious): 1999 Petrof III
Foster child: 1927 Kurtzmann upright
Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3030379 09/29/20 08:04 PM
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Are you sure the hammer does not have "grooves" on it that discharge a kind of ring. I think I read about something like that somewhere...
Does the sound happen when the hammer hits the string,or a fraction of a second afterwards ?

Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3030401 09/29/20 08:58 PM
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My piano has really deep grooves across the entire middle to upper register and it has a really bright and ringing sound. After getting the grooves sanded out the sound improved alot

Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3030442 09/30/20 12:24 AM
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My hammers have minimal grooving. A recent shoeshine with 1500 grit further flattened the strike points. Sadly the pinging remains. You'll hear when I record my piano, so stay tuned.


Daily driver: Kawai MP11SE
First crush: 2018 Kawai GL10
Current fling (and it's getting serious): 1999 Petrof III
Foster child: 1927 Kurtzmann upright
Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3030491 09/30/20 08:26 AM
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If you have a mechanical thermostat, it may be the culprit. There is a spring inside them that can vibrate sympathetically with certain frequencies.


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Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3030684 09/30/20 06:36 PM
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Could it be your hearing? I had a hearing problem that caused very specific frequencies to ring. Strange that both pianos have the ringing at about the same note. Good luck if it is your hearing. My problem fortunately went away.


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Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3031425 10/02/20 05:52 PM
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Emery,

Just so I am clear here...you hear it ONLY when you play C5?

Or

You hear C5 ringing when you play elsewhere?

Or

You hear a much higher frequency ringing when you hit C5?

If the last one is correct, what frequency is the ringing at?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


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Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3031454 10/02/20 07:31 PM
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Hi Peter, it's the last one: ringing when I hit C5. Not sure what the pitch of the ringing is. It's a high pitched metallic whine, sort of like the high pitched ringing that lingers in your ear after a loud concert. I also hear it on B4 or C#5, but to a lesser extent. Perhaps "ping" is a better description.


Daily driver: Kawai MP11SE
First crush: 2018 Kawai GL10
Current fling (and it's getting serious): 1999 Petrof III
Foster child: 1927 Kurtzmann upright
Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3031489 10/02/20 09:22 PM
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I'm initially inclined to call it a longitudinal mode frequency. However if I were diagnosing it in person I would:

1) Lay a blanket (or similar) on top off the bass strings to stop any possibility of leakage

2) Mute off ALL (repeat ALL) duplex, triplex, or otherwise unmuted wire segments front, back, above the dampers, between the tuning pins, etc etc using masking tape...everywhere.

Now play C5. If it stops, you now know it is coming from one or more undamped string segments and it is a simple matter of slowly unmuting things until the culprit is found.

If it still rings, it's not in the piano, OR, it is a LM frequency on that note. If LM, that's not going to be fun. If it's something else in the room one must find it.

The point is that you must categorically rule in or rule out the piano itself. Then you know where to look.

That's how I would find and fix it. (Hopefully)

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

Last edited by P W Grey; 10/02/20 09:22 PM.

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Re: High pitch ringing around C5
P W Grey #3031506 10/02/20 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
I'm initially inclined to call it a longitudinal mode frequency. However if I were diagnosing it in person I would:

1) Lay a blanket (or similar) on top off the bass strings to stop any possibility of leakage

2) Mute off ALL (repeat ALL) duplex, triplex, or otherwise unmuted wire segments front, back, above the dampers, between the tuning pins, etc etc using masking tape...everywhere.

Now play C5. If it stops, you now know it is coming from one or more undamped string segments and it is a simple matter of slowly unmuting things until the culprit is found.

If it still rings, it's not in the piano, OR, it is a LM frequency on that note. If LM, that's not going to be fun. If it's something else in the room one must find it.

The point is that you must categorically rule in or rule out the piano itself. Then you know where to look.

That's how I would find and fix it. (Hopefully)

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

Peter, that is why you are the Piano Doctor! smile

Great diagnostic protocol...

Rick


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Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3033038 10/07/20 10:57 AM
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Thanks a lot Peter! I should have some time this week to try your ideas. I'll let you know what I find.


Daily driver: Kawai MP11SE
First crush: 2018 Kawai GL10
Current fling (and it's getting serious): 1999 Petrof III
Foster child: 1927 Kurtzmann upright
Re: High pitch ringing around C5
Emery Wang #3033752 10/09/20 10:25 AM
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Peter Grey Piano Doctor


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pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
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