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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
j&j #3022640 09/07/20 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Jethro - I’ll say this gently. Kawai piano doesn’t need loyal customers defending them at every turn. They have a rather large fan following, especially on PianoWorld. I think you’re preaching to the choir. No disrespect but you are a Kawai fan through and through and we know that might slant your opinion. The Shigerus are a fabulous piano. They’re just not the only fabulous piano out there.
Oh yes of course I know that, I think there are a lot of pianos that I would like to own and buy. Some of them are just too expensive for my taste or what I would want to spend on an instrument- save that for the professionals. Like I said my contribution to this thread was a direct response to comments made about the Shigeru line in this thread and a couple of others. I enjoy all pianos I just think we can enjoy pianos without having a need to put others down. I don't see that from most posters here and I was a bit surprised about the comment made about Shigerus in another thread. I practice on Yamaha's, Steinways, Mason Hamlins and tried out a couple of Estonias a few years ago and wrote a raving review about them. I'm not actually attached to any piano and have often said I've looked for the soul in any piano I come across no matter how beat up. I just happen to own Kawai's because I always seem to get the best deal. I still play on my parents Young Chang when I visit them at home. So don't take this the wrong way. I just posted a couple of nice Yamaha videos before I read yours. This is a thread about Yamaha and Kawai so that's why I'm referring to them in this thread. I've said it over and over, I love em both.

Last edited by Jethro; 09/07/20 10:40 PM.

Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Jethro #3022724 09/08/20 07:56 AM
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Thank you Jethro for posting about the Yamaha SXs. I haven’t seen or tried one. I’m really glad you are still over the moon about your Shigeru and all Kawai’s. As I mentioned before there is a very large Kawai fan group on PianoWorld, far larger than the Estonia (We are not a Cult we are a) Club. So you’re in good company.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
j&j #3022742 09/08/20 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Thank you Jethro for posting about the Yamaha SXs. I haven’t seen or tried one. I’m really glad you are still over the moon about your Shigeru and all Kawai’s. As I mentioned before there is a very large Kawai fan group on PianoWorld, far larger than the Estonia (We are not a Cult we are a) Club. So you’re in good company.
Yes there is quite a devote following of Estonia pianos here. A remember a time when just about every other thread here was about Estonia Pianos and Dr Laul making those surprise visits at local dealers. The Estonia’s are another gift to amateur and professional pianists. They are exquisite high end pianos at a price many piano enthusiasts can afford. In the end this is good for the art of playing the acoustic piano. It seems like in the past decade they have been going the way of the dinosaur in the US and Europe with digitals often purchased instead. Used to be to get into the art of piano every home had to have an acoustic, but digitals have become an alternative but not quite a replacement. Affordable pianos ensures that the future of the acoustic is sustainable rather it just becoming a rare niche product.


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
j&j #3022743 09/08/20 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Thank you Jethro for posting about the Yamaha SXs. I haven’t seen or tried one. I’m really glad you are still over the moon about your Shigeru and all Kawai’s. As I mentioned before there is a very large Kawai fan group on PianoWorld, far larger than the Estonia (We are not a Cult we are a) Club. So you’re in good company.

There are other good brands owned by members here who do not even have a club, and for the most part do not post about the brand or model past purchase

Seems where there needs to be a club is with the lower priced models, as that is the majority of purchases.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
dogperson #3022813 09/08/20 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by j&j
Thank you Jethro for posting about the Yamaha SXs. I haven’t seen or tried one. I’m really glad you are still over the moon about your Shigeru and all Kawai’s. As I mentioned before there is a very large Kawai fan group on PianoWorld, far larger than the Estonia (We are not a Cult we are a) Club. So you’re in good company.

There are other good brands owned by members here who do not even have a club, and for the most part do not post about the brand or model past purchase

Seems where there needs to be a club is with the lower priced models, as that is the majority of purchases.
I'd love to read more stories from owners about those other rarer pianos that have been purchased. Those that do I often find share interesting facts about their pianos and most I have never heard much about unless I read about it here. This is a piano forum within a website called Pianoworld so if ever there is an appropriate place to post about pianos it is here. So as Emery Wang put it, "keep it coming!"


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Jethro #3022823 09/08/20 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by j&j
Thank you Jethro for posting about the Yamaha SXs. I haven’t seen or tried one. I’m really glad you are still over the moon about your Shigeru and all Kawai’s. As I mentioned before there is a very large Kawai fan group on PianoWorld, far larger than the Estonia (We are not a Cult we are a) Club. So you’re in good company.
Yes there is quite a devote following of Estonia pianos here. A remember a time when just about every other thread here was about Estonia Pianos and Dr Laul making those surprise visits at local dealers. The Estonia’s are another gift to amateur and professional pianists. They are exquisite high end pianos at a price many piano enthusiasts can afford. In the end this is good for the art of playing the acoustic piano. It seems like in the past decade they have been going the way of the dinosaur in the US and Europe with digitals often purchased instead. Used to be to get into the art of piano every home had to have an acoustic, but digitals have become an alternative but not quite a replacement. Affordable pianos ensures that the future of the acoustic is sustainable rather it just becoming a rare niche product.

Estonias might be lovely, but they don't make any uprights and so are not possible for those of us without the space.

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
gwing #3022826 09/08/20 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gwing
Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by j&j
Thank you Jethro for posting about the Yamaha SXs. I haven’t seen or tried one. I’m really glad you are still over the moon about your Shigeru and all Kawai’s. As I mentioned before there is a very large Kawai fan group on PianoWorld, far larger than the Estonia (We are not a Cult we are a) Club. So you’re in good company.
Yes there is quite a devote following of Estonia pianos here. A remember a time when just about every other thread here was about Estonia Pianos and Dr Laul making those surprise visits at local dealers. The Estonia’s are another gift to amateur and professional pianists. They are exquisite high end pianos at a price many piano enthusiasts can afford. In the end this is good for the art of playing the acoustic piano. It seems like in the past decade they have been going the way of the dinosaur in the US and Europe with digitals often purchased instead. Used to be to get into the art of piano every home had to have an acoustic, but digitals have become an alternative but not quite a replacement. Affordable pianos ensures that the future of the acoustic is sustainable rather it just becoming a rare niche product.

Estonias might be lovely, but they don't make any uprights and so are not possible for those of us without the space.
There should be a thread dedicated to high end uprights only. That would be very interesting to read. Before I owned my home I was looking at high end uprights. I think many would be surprised at how nice a high quality upright can sound. The actions are improving as well.


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Jethro #3022896 09/08/20 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Love the tone of those Shigeru's !
Jethro my Kawai 500 model from 1966 kind of "aged out. It needed restoration, so I sold it in 2017.
I tried a few new grands at first (although I started to think of getting a good or excellent upright upright instead )
The tall good European uprights I found had a wonderful tone ,tone projection and a responsive touch.The Sauter 130 suits me perfectly at a time in life when I no longer need a grand.
Probably if I did get a grand it may have been a GX2 or 3.
The GX and the Shigeru for me have a tone that is closer to European pianos than the other Japanese piano ,unless I went
for one of the higher models of Yamaha., But then I may as well have bought a Schimmel, Estonia or some other European grand .
Listening to those Shigeru's brought back the day I tried one.
Yes ,it is a piano with hauntingly beautiful tone.
However I am perfectly satisfied with the piano I have ., it reminds me of the Seiler I had as a child. So I am not "fretting" for a grand.
Sauters are beautiful uprights. I've heard them but never got the chance to play one but I've heard samples online. They sound very very nice. I'm sure you are enjoying yours.

Wow a K500 from 1966. How did that play and sound?
No it was a grand , the model was Kawai 500.
That price is not realistic I do not , even in a restored piano.
( the price mentioned below )



https://reverb.com/item/1508227-kawai-grand-piano-model-500

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/08/20 04:11 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3023288 09/09/20 03:47 PM
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I think it is good for PW for people to mention thier brand of piano, and to say "now you belong to the XXX club" As far as I know there are no "real clubs" around except for the
Bechstein Club.
So what I say is carry on writing about your brand of piano whatever it is. There is a great deal we can feel guilty about ,
but having a nice piano is not one of them.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/09/20 03:48 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3029412 09/26/20 07:30 PM
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Stu's back with another Yamaha/Kawai comparison, this time it's the C2X and the GX2. I think he did a very nice job highlighting the subtle and not-so-subtle differences between these two fine pianos, especially where they differ in tone.


Last edited by Emery Wang; 09/26/20 07:31 PM.

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Current fling: Petrof III
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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3029420 09/26/20 09:05 PM
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I enjoyed That - Thanks!


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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3029428 09/26/20 11:00 PM
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Can I just be the guy who gets to pass around the popcorn this time?


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Emery Wang #3029510 09/27/20 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Stu's back with another Yamaha/Kawai comparison, this time it's the C2X and the GX2. I think he did a very nice job highlighting the subtle and not-so-subtle differences between these two fine pianos, especially where they differ in tone.
Given his bias, I did notice he spends more time talking about the Kawai, yet more time playing the Yamaha. The Yamaha has more clarity and articulation in this demonstration. Certainly both are beautiful pianos.


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
Lucubrate #3029521 09/27/20 09:11 AM
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Once we actually shop, compare, debate, decide, and purchase we all like affirmation of our choice. Over and over and over. So the debate never ends.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
j&j #3029524 09/27/20 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Once we actually shop, compare, debate, decide, and purchase we all like affirmation of our choice. Over and over and over. So the debate never ends.

This, yes.
Over and over again on this forum, in particular!


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
terminaldegree #3029527 09/27/20 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by j&j
Once we actually shop, compare, debate, decide, and purchase we all like affirmation of our choice. Over and over and over. So the debate never ends.

This, yes.
Over and over again on this forum, in particular!


Interestingly, there are many brands/models owned by forum members, but only a few of these are discussed/mentioned repeatedly.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
terminaldegree #3029529 09/27/20 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by j&j
Once we actually shop, compare, debate, decide, and purchase we all like affirmation of our choice. Over and over and over. So the debate never ends.
This, yes. Over and over again on this forum, in particular!
Which is why reviews from owners should IMO be taken with a grain of salt, especially when they appear many times from the same owner.

Same for reviews by dealers, with just a few exceptions. Ever read a single post on PW by a dealer saying anything truly negative about a piano in their inventory?

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
pianoloverus #3029539 09/27/20 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by j&j
Once we actually shop, compare, debate, decide, and purchase we all like affirmation of our choice. Over and over and over. So the debate never ends.
This, yes. Over and over again on this forum, in particular!
Which is why reviews from owners should IMO be taken with a grain of salt, especially when they appear many times from the same owner.

Same for reviews by dealers, with just a few exceptions. Ever read a single post on PW by a dealer saying anything truly negative about a piano in their inventory?

I never trust reviews from users who just purchased an instrument or any product at all. As a matter of fact, I prefer not to read positive reviews smile I prefer reading the negative reviews. I will agree that this is an arguable strategy but I believe people are more detailed in their descriptions and more realistic when complaining about something, rather when justifying reviewing their brand new purchase wink

Last edited by CyberGene; 09/27/20 10:19 AM.

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Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
dogperson #3029580 09/27/20 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by j&j
Once we actually shop, compare, debate, decide, and purchase we all like affirmation of our choice. Over and over and over. So the debate never ends.

This, yes.
Over and over again on this forum, in particular!


Interestingly, there are many brands/models owned by forum members, but only a few of these are discussed/mentioned repeatedly.
Sometimes., There is a real reason for that .If that owner owns a brand that has been through a very difficult time .Only last night did I read some posts some of the threads about some of
the difficulties Sauter went in about 2015 to 2018 .This was the
time I had set my mind on buying one of those pianos. The material that appeared on PW destroyed, I beleive the reputation of that piano brand in North America. Those threads even in thier "greatly edited" versions are disturbing.
I was afraid at the time to write in to PW and say "hey I am buying a Sauter" The problems all revolved around a distributor, and dealers losing thier authorized dealership of this piano. It is a story of pain and bitterness that I beleive carries on today here.
These were totally NOT QUALITY OR MUSICAL reasons for a historic manufacturer to just be forgotten about .Sauter had been an extremly popular brand on PW until then.

Terminaldegree may have very rational reasons for feeling as he does .Some people here may have other personal reasons for trying to control members to not speak about the enjoyment
they experience with thier pianos.
Is there not enough CONTROL going on already with trying to get through this Covid 19 and the other serious aspects of life?
What do you want to do, just stop members from writing about thier pianos ? Would you like us to just carry on promoting the popular pianos ? Or would you like us to to just scratch the backs of the important dealers here ?

Re: Yamaha v Kawai: Acoustic Piano Brand Comparison
j&j #3029660 09/27/20 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Once we actually shop, compare, debate, decide, and purchase we all like affirmation of our choice. Over and over and over. So the debate never ends.

That may be true, but sometimes people can be objective and fair when referring to pianos they don't own. Sometimes there is a certain paranoia that people don't like the pianos that they don't own. For me it's always about the music. I dug up an old review I made of your very own Estonia 190 twelve years ago. I'd like to think that this was a fair and unbiased opinion of Estonias at that time. In fact, the only criticism I had of the Estonia models at that time was the action which to my understanding has been improved since I wrote that personal review. The debates here at PW are sometimes "weird". I had to put the names of the digital and acoustic pianos that I own in my signature because some people in certain posts that I partook in thought I was biased against digitals. To some degree, I have always said they are not the equivalent of an acoustic but I have always thought they served a very important purpose in learning and generating music. I've owned nearly a dozen digital keyboards in the past 30 years. I just felt strongly that children whose brains are capable of picking the nuances of an acoustic early are better served learning on acoustic pianos rather than on digitals and if they had the choice of one go for the acoustic. Better than that get both for them if you can afford it. Somehow that came out as Jethro is saying children's techniques will be ruined by learning on a digital. So I put the names the acoustic AND digital piano that I own so no one gets hurt but they just happened to both be Kawais.

Anyways that's in the past. Reading this thread from 12 years ago makes me laugh because Bear 1 recommending that I look at auditioning a Shigeru in that thread and I did not until 12 years later and I love it.

Review of Estonia Pianos 2008 by Jethro


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
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