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My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
#3028836 09/25/20 06:43 AM
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I bought used Yamaha G2 recently and tuner tuned it today. I asked him to fix some false beat in begging of treble section and he said several keys need to be voiced. After he voiced around 15 keys, the false beats were not mitigated at all, and sound became like muffled like practice pedal pressed. I noticed that after he went back.

Originally my piano had very clear and not too bright crispy sound but now it sounds like dog is barking under the water.

I am afraid to call him to complain as I don't want to make situation worse. After tuning, he asked me if I want light voicing but I said I don't want mellower sound.

Now some keys remains as clear and crispy and some keys are very soft and mellow tone. All of them mixed together.

Is it expensive to put back the sound? I've seen many technicians did needling without asking customers opinions but I've never seen they doing make the tone brighter.

I am now so depressed.

Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3028842 09/25/20 07:18 AM
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Post a recording.
Play your piano. That alone will mitigate the effects of voicing.


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Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
terminaldegree #3028867 09/25/20 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Post a recording.
Play your piano. That alone will mitigate the effects of voicing.

+1

I was thinking the same thing, Owen.

Tony, play your G2, and play it hard, and often. As often as you can, and as hard as you can, especially on those notes that you say are muffled and sound like a dog barking under water (never heard that one before). If the hard playing, knocks the notes/unisons back out of tune, you will have tested your tuner's tuning stability skills, for better or worse.

You might be surprised how soon the tone you like comes back around, and the dog stops barking under water.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3028869 09/25/20 09:09 AM
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Also, watch your humidity. Just from my own observations, it seems like higher humidity makes my Yahama C2 a little softer, mellower, and when the humidity is lower, the tone is brighter.

I hope no one will tell me this is my imagination, because I am convinced that the humidity has a fairly quick and direct impact on the hammers (and thus on the tone) with my C2. (Even though the tuning is way more stable in the face of humidity changes, even more so than I would have expected...)


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Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
Rickster #3028870 09/25/20 09:11 AM
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Thank you Rick, will it recover its tone colour as well? It sounds like 'Black high gloss piano cabinet became Black satin'. I hope you can understand

Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
ShiroKuro #3028871 09/25/20 09:14 AM
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No it has nothing to do with humidity. Piano tuner did over voicing on around 7 keys. The typical bright Yamaha sparkling tone became like lid opened coke for several days

Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
ShiroKuro #3028872 09/25/20 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Also, watch your humidity. Just from my own observations, it seems like higher humidity makes my Yahama C2 a little softer, mellower, and when the humidity is lower, the tone is brighter.

I hope no one will tell me this is my imagination, because I am convinced that the humidity has a fairly quick and direct impact on the hammers (and thus on the tone) with my C2. (Even though the tuning is way more stable in the face of humidity changes, even more so than I would have expected...)

ShiroKuro, you are absolutely right about the humidity causing subtle changes in the tonal qualities. Over time, I've noticed subtle tonal changes in my pianos from morning to evening the same day, if you listen closely. But I don't think the daily changes in humidity, even if extreem, would cause drastic changes in tone like Tony is talking about.

Originally Posted by tony330
Thank you Rick, will it recover its tone colour as well? It sounds like 'Black high gloss piano cabinet became Black satin'. I hope you can understand

I do understand Tony, and, I've been there done that, on more than one occasion... smile

Also, and I'm no psychologist, but when our brain is used to hearing a certain tone, and there is a change, our brain, particularly our sensory perception, notices, a lot. I'm thinking that after you play it a while, things will settle down to more of an acceptable level as far as the tone of your piano goes.

If not, then it will be time to call the tuner back. But be prepared for a debate, if not a confrontation. It is usually not an easy thing to tell someone, particularly a professional, who has just provided a service, for pay, that you are not satisfied with their work.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
Rickster #3028877 09/25/20 09:34 AM
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It's so hard find highly skilled technician in this small country(NZ).

Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3028880 09/25/20 09:39 AM
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I didn't mean to imply that humidity was a cause for Tony's problem, but rather, going forward, Tony should try to make sure the the humidity stays on the low side (or perhaps a little lower than usual).

Tony, I'm sorry that you don't have many options for a skilled technician, I'm sure that's frustrating.

I do think that you should inform your tuner about what happened, and do that right away rather than wait. Not necessarily so you can have him come back, but more so that he knows there was a problem. Then in the future you can decide whether you want to have him work on your piano again or whether you'll try to find someone else.

Good luck!


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Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3028893 09/25/20 09:54 AM
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I'm just curious, after the piano technician tuned your G2 and did the voicing, did he invite you to sit at the piano and play it and offer feedback or tell him what you thought of his work, and whether or not you were satisfied?

On the other hand, sometimes we don't notice things right away, and it has to sink in a bit.

Either way, I hope there is a good outcome for you.

My mantra? Anything man-made can be fixed or replaced. smile

All the best!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3028920 09/25/20 11:22 AM
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Did you feel that any hammers required something done to them? Not all tuners have good voicing skill and common practice is for the technician to offer to voice just one hammer for your consideration. You have had good advice about recovery. The more you play the more compressed the hammers will be. I have in the past over needled one of my pianos but it did recover after a few months! What is important is that the voicing should leave each adjacent hammer with a tone quality, volume and sustain equal to its neighbour.
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Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3028932 09/25/20 12:16 PM
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It can be reversed. A special iron can be used to brighten them back up.


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
WBLynch #3028972 09/25/20 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by WBLynch
It can be reversed. A special iron can be used to brighten them back up.
Yes, I think this is a better option so as to avoid unnecessary wear of the hammer felt, unless you play normally and wait for the hammer felt to compact.

Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3028981 09/25/20 02:46 PM
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Although I would recommend to the OP that you play it as is for maybe a month? See how it settles in, and whether you come to think better of it?


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Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3029013 09/25/20 04:25 PM
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Playing those notes specifically will help bring back the crispness. If these are upper treble notes, there is a trick that I hesitate to post here that will accelerate this (post needling, but not necessarily if other voicing techniques were used).

Which 7 notes?


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Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3029021 09/25/20 04:52 PM
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Thank you for all your helpful words. Now I am much relieved. Technician will come back and resolve the issue. I was so depressed.

Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3029137 09/26/20 12:59 AM
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Changing tuner/ tech folk is as bad as changing doctors. Just when you have them broken in, off they go to a better opportunity.

Tony, I don't know whether or not you will want to keep this tech, but you do have to talk to him or you will get nowhere. It need not be unpleasant. As far as I've seen, they may know their craft, but they're not really into reading minds. Still, I feel surprised that a tech would leave the voicing so lumpy, and never address the beating notes that you complained about initially. One would expect that the tone would be graduated more or less evenly across the whole keyboard. The beating could be a simple fix, or a more troublesome problem, but give him a fair shot at it, since he's coming back anyway.

It can help to write down the things that you have spotted for improvement, and give it to your tech. This also works for the doctor and the vet.

Best of luck1


Clef

Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3029230 09/26/20 07:44 AM
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It seems there is another thread about pianos being too mellow and Pianoloverus linked it to an article explaining voicing by Sally Phillips, which is very informative. ShiroKuro- it’s not your imagination, humidity or lack thereof does affect a piano’s brightness.

To the OP - call the technician back and tell him/her that the notes (write down which ones) are voiced down a bit too much for your taste and can he/she voice them back up a bit - more to your taste. Then play, practice, and play some more and the brightness should return. A piano technician needs to learn what exactly you want your piano to sound like. Please don’t be depressed, it can be fixed.


J & J
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Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
Jeff Clef #3029232 09/26/20 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Clef
Changing tuner/ tech folk is as bad as changing doctors. Just when you have them broken in, off they go to a better opportunity.

Tony, I don't know whether or not you will want to keep this tech, but you do have to talk to him or you will get nowhere. It need not be unpleasant. As far as I've seen, they may know their craft, but they're not really into reading minds. Still, I feel surprised that a tech would leave the voicing so lumpy, and never address the beating notes that you complained about initially. One would expect that the tone would be graduated more or less evenly across the whole keyboard. The beating could be a simple fix, or a more troublesome problem, but give him a fair shot at it, since he's coming back anyway.

It can help to write down the things that you have spotted for improvement, and give it to your tech. This also works for the doctor and the vet.

Best of luck1

This is also true for auto mechanics! smile

Last edited by j&j; 09/26/20 07:48 AM.

J & J
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I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: My Yamaha G2 sound became muffled after tuner did something
tony3304 #3029400 09/26/20 06:21 PM
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I would not call that technician. Do you not have Technicians
Guild you can look up online to get a RPT ? (Registerered PianoTechnician)
I think though when the hammers are "pricked " for voicing the "new mellowness" does not last long ., so play those notes a few times each day. If this piano is a new piano it may need several tunings a year , and touch up voicings. Gradually it will
settle down .(but make sure you help by playing it)


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