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I do a muteless pitch raise with the average tuning (or a saved tuning from a similar scaled piano) with tunelab. Takes at most 15 minutes. I then take measurements with verituner and fine tune the piano. I have pianometer also as a backup, it does a pretty good job at pitch raising, but tunelab, being able to display all 3 strings, therefore allowing one to not use mutes is a major time saver. Also very accurate. Even a 100 cent pitch raise will bring the pitch within a few cents of a440.

In my 35 years of tuning there is only one grand piano where I have used CLP on the under felt because the piano was restrung and the felt used was too thick.

I very rarely break strings. I tune using the jerking/impact type movement as opposed to slow pull. If there is rust I just very slightly lower the pitch before raising it.

Just my method, I'm sure others do just as well using alternative methods.

All the best.

Step #1: Don't raise the pitch of the piano more than 5c at a time.

All jokes aside, you really want to float the pitch of a piano as much as possible to maintain stability. Only in hyper-demanding circumstances (i.e. concert hall or recording studio) must a piano be at exactly a certain pitch. In every other circumstance, people can happily adjust. The 440Hz nonsense is just that..

The structure of the typical piano is vastly over engineered, and can take pitch changes of half a semitone or more without shifting noticeably. It is the membrane structure of the soundboard that bleeds forces throughout the scale. Floating to minimize this is what creates stability efficiently and reliably.

I'm a big believer in floating the pitch, especially in the domestic situation and especially when you see that due to some odd seasonal weather, everyone's piano has drifted a little sharp or a little flat. No point in yanking the pitch around by a few cents every time.

For an upright piano acquired by a music studio though, and between 25-30 cents flat across the compass through being long untuned, it's really got to be pitch-raised, and 440 is probably the place to go.

So yesterday I tried using Overpull mode on PianoMeter.

I had tried it once before, but maybe I set or measured something wrong, or maybe it was because it was on a ropey old upright that was very flat, but I couldn't get it working well for me.

Yesterday was a 2 1/2 year old Yamaha G1 that had not been tuned since purchase and was around 20 cents flat. I decided to try Overpull mode on PianoMeter, and it worked very successfully. Like you Nick, I was amazed at the accuracy - I could probably have crept away after the overpull pass and the owner would have been reasonably satisfied. For the second pass, the piano behaved very well, and I was pleased by the speed of the two passes - an hour and three quarters all in (with coffee!).

Good news David.
On the subject of floating the tuning....in my part of the world all the men in the household have purchased a guitar tuner and if A on the piano doesn't register exactly on 440 they think the piano hasn't been tuned! So I often have to change just that few cents all through, knowing inside that the piano would be more stable floated.
Hey ho!
Nick

That's interesting, Nick. And frustrating! Would some form of words by way of explanation about the difference between pianos and electronic tuning devices work to convince them that it's better for the piano to let it do its thing, within limits? No?

David - Glad you found the Pitch raise function on PianoMeter useful. I use it all the time and have found it to be very accurate with just a little touch up needed after the first pass.

Just an F.Y.I. - Maybe people are already aware of this but the Pitch raise function will also work as a pitch lowering function equally well. I use it a lot in the summer when the humidity is high. It might be good if it was called Pitch Correction function since it works well either way.

When the issue is a minor one I will often ask if the piano gets played with other instruments. If the answer is no, then I explain what "floating the pitch" is and why it can be better overall. When they learn that there is extra cost and less stability associated with putting it at 440 every time they usually opt for floating.

This is also a good time to discuss the merits of humidity control.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

I have that kind of discussion too. We don't have huge humidity swings here - it's damp all the time! But you do get seasons where everyone's piano has drifted a little sharp, or flat. I always explain about 'floating the pitch', and that other instruments will be able to tune to the piano, which is not that much away from 440, but if they are using a recorded music source, they might hear the difference. I explain that it's physically better for the piano, and for tuning stability, not to yank the pitch around. And that it will probably go back to 440 all by itself, with seasonal changes.

This is exactly it, with the caveat that in perfect conditions the average piano will lose about 2.5c of tension per year. It is absolutely superior structurally and value-wise to float. Yanking pianos to 440 Hz every time reveals a very inexperienced technician, and puts very destructive forces on the block, bearings and board. I approach pitch corrections in a time-distributed approach, and combine the value of a long lasting tuning with micro-corrections to achieve target objectives for the customer. This way, pitch targets can be achieved over the long term, integrating float curves with target positions. Try not to change the pitch more than 11c at once on a large grand (as measured from the low tenor deviations), or about 25-30c on an upright.

I think this needs disecting a little....
How often are you tuning these floating tunings? Fair enough comment if you are tuning every month or two but,for instance, there are many people who only have their pianos tuned once a year or even once every two years. These pianos need bringing back to pitch or they will just "slip downwards" until they need a proper (and hard on the piano) pitch raise.
Other clients have visiting musicians who need A at 440.
Try telling my studio and concert hall clients that bringing to A440 each time " reveals a very inexperienced technician" and I can assure you that, in this part of the world (south England) you won't have a career long enough to become experienced.
"very destructive forces on the block, bearings and board" what are these forces then?

I guess it all hangs on what the client is satisfied by, maybe someone being happy with a 10cents low tuning "reveals an inexperienced client" rather than anything else!
Nick

Good points. I was thinking mainly of the home situation and clients whose pianos I know. AND, I am much more inclined to 'float', when the pitch has gone sharp rather than flat - especially if it seems to be happening to everyone's piano at the same time.

Made me laugh; so true. Every situation pulls the technician in different directions, based on capitalistic necessity, or the marketing 'knowledge' absorbed by the client. We are at the mercy of whim, which is a great difficulty in this career. Science and analysis are treated like an extra option or indulgence, which is insane.

Yes, concert halls and recording studios leave us with no choice but to tune to (439.5-442.5?) 440 Hz..

Yes, the detailed float tuning approach applies to pianos serviced every 2/3 months, or more often. At 6 months, I use a two-point system with the correction applied in the summer or early fall. At a year, I only deal with measuring the approximate correction needed. Going out 2+ years, things become less stable because degradation of net tension does not really happen linearly. I don't track pianos out that far, just deal with them as they come. I expect to see them 5-8c flat on the net cycle.

There is a linearizing effect on the board with keeping a piano in tune. When this controlling force (counter force of strings on the board) becomes too disregulated, board movement accelerates and the extremes tend to increase until the system finally plateaus, due to other structural effects.

Destructive forces on the block come from moving the pins much more than necessary (especially in the center section, where pin precision must be the highest). Destructive forces on the bearings come from drawing excessive string through the bearing points in one pass. There is a small mating zone on every string that corresponds with the bearing point, that must act as a precision slip joint. Aggressive pitch raising can destabilize this, especially if the pins are pulled one at a time, and not in pairs.

Destructive forces on the board relate to the crown and the distribution of tension across it. The climate determines board movement, and we have no control over these destructive forces unless the client decides to be responsible with a regulation system. The best we can do is not introduce secondary stress forces, on top of what climate is already doing. This may be very counterintuitive, but the board is the most delicate structure on a piano besides the action. Floating the pitch accurately allows for the center regions of the board (where it is most delicate) to not take any asymmetric, jarring stress loads. Try floating the pitch accurately for a couple of years on any piano, and you will see the stabilizing effects.

The problem with "floating" the pitch is that the central area of the piano goes out of tune more than the extremes.

I haven't seen damage to a block by too-infrequent tunings, nor too-frequent. I have tuned a concert piano 4-6 times a week for decades, moving it to the exact 440 every time. It showed no appreciable loss of torque. I have often first tuned pianos with a 4-10 year span of neglect and not found any block damage for that since they tuned well for years after, (I have been in one place here for a LONG time). I also haven't found any less stability for bringing them all the way up to pitch at once as opposed to "spreading it out" over a month or two and several tunings. Big changes all bring instability, and it seems to me that getting it all done at once in an over-pull controlled pass and then fine-tuning is no less stable than bringing one up in increments.

Assume a 10 year gap after stringing, and you may have a 30=100 cent flat piano. The pin movement required to bring it up is no more than a continuation of the last tuner's effort. I have also not seen infrequent tuning associated with damaged boards, never noticing that the variance of load a board sees between a440 and 435 or 444 is enough to distort it, and when bringing them to pitch from various distances, I find no loss of performance. Old adage was soundboards crack if the piano is not kept up with, but I find the neglect of the climate control far more damaging than wild swings of pitch.
Regards,

You are also right, Ed. I respect how you are a warrior for truth. However, here we meet the Checkhovian impasse of understanding between human beings. It really depends on your perspective. What I call damage is very minor to most, and invisible to the eye. I also did not make as many assertions as were refuted above. Piano techs are a tightly wound bunch, but that's to be expected. Not an easy job we have, especially in the era of techno-driven misinformation..