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Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
Sweelinck #3027507 09/21/20 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Chronologically, I think my top 8 are:

Bach
Handel
Mozart
Beethoven
Schubert
Mendelssohn
Brahms
Stravinsky
Yikes - I hope Chopin and Schumann would be included in your top 10.


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Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
chopinetto #3027617 09/21/20 06:07 PM
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I would put Chopin at 9, and then I struggle with a top-10 due to only having one slot left for Schumann and Debussy. Chopin is hands down my top piano composer, but I struggle to rank him quite as high as Handel, Brahms or Mendelssohn given the lack of large scale choral, operatic, or symphonic works, and I don't think his orchestrations in the piano concertos are top tier efforts. But Chopin's piano compositions were so innovative and impactful that I also struggle to rank him below Mendelssohn and Brahms.

Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
chopinetto #3027625 09/21/20 06:45 PM
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Assuming that a great composer wouldn't play an inferior composers work, What does it say that Chopin played Bach Daily?
-chris


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Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
chopinetto #3027633 09/21/20 07:07 PM
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I would add that technical playing ability is not relevant to ranking a composer's works. Whether or not Chopin had a technique to match Liszt is irrelevant. (And Liszt's student Eugene d'Albert once said that another Liszt student, Carl Tausig, was more accurate than Liszt).

Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
Sweelinck #3027669 09/21/20 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
I would put Chopin at 9, and then I struggle with a top-10 due to only having one slot left for Schumann and Debussy. Chopin is hands down my top piano composer, but I struggle to rank him quite as high as Handel, Brahms or Mendelssohn given the lack of large scale choral, operatic, or symphonic works, and I don't think his orchestrations in the piano concertos are top tier efforts. But Chopin's piano compositions were so innovative and impactful that I also struggle to rank him below Mendelssohn and Brahms.
Take Handel off the list and then add Schumann and Debussy. Problem solved. Another option, remove Mendelssohn from the list and add Schumann and Debussy.


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Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
chopinetto #3027694 09/22/20 02:28 AM
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We'll just have to disagree about ranking Handel and Schumann, which is perfectly ok.

Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
Sweelinck #3027809 09/22/20 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
We'll just have to disagree about ranking Handel and Schumann, which is perfectly ok.
Of course - they are both GREAT !!!!!!!! smile


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Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
chopinetto #3027878 09/22/20 12:53 PM
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Agreed.

Some years ago, there was what turned out to be a controversial piece in the NYTimes by a newspaper music critic ranking the top-10 composers in order. In that link, the rankings are explained. (In a previous article, the list was provided without explanation causing a tempest in a teapot at the time.

For those who don't want to read the article, the author's ranking was: 1. Bach, 2. Beethoven, 3. Mozart, 4. Schubert, 5. Debussy, 6. Stravinsky, 7. Brahms, 8. Verdi, 9. Wagner, 10. Bartok

This led me down the rabbit hole of making my own list.

Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
chopinetto #3027883 09/22/20 01:05 PM
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People and their rankingmania.

Isn't it bold to affirm that one composer is better than any other one? In order to say that you are assuming you have studied the whole work of both composers, you have determined wich are their most important pieces and you have a criteria that allows you to decide wich of both sets has more musical value.

And people here not only says that, they are making rankings about all the composers.

I say Bach is my favourite composer, and Schubert probably my second one. My favourites. But the best? I will never say that because i don't want to put myself in such a position that anyone can come and say "Ok, probe it".

Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
chopinetto #3027891 09/22/20 01:20 PM
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There can only be one winner, and it is


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
bennevis #3027912 09/22/20 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
There can only be one winner, and it is

The winner is u/bennevis.

Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
mcontraveos #3027921 09/22/20 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mcontraveos
Originally Posted by bennevis
There can only be one winner, and it is

The winner is u/bennevis.

I thought it was Connor MacLeod

Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
chopinetto #3028352 09/23/20 06:46 PM
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Chopinetto
When we visited Chopin's grave in Paris there was a group of 4 young people there.It was very moving ,they were weeping ,even the young men......
It was both surprising and very moving and we found ourselves in tears as well.We both love Chopin's music.There were flowers on the grave ,and I believe there always are. 💐
He is a much loved composer.
However I do not think we need to prove how great a composer he was .......his music tells us yes he was great.
These comparisons here never go well and no one is fully qualified to really judge. His music is enough !
.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/23/20 06:48 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
Sweelinck #3028366 09/23/20 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
If Chopin's greatness arises from his propelling keyboard technique and composition forward, then we would have to consider Buxtehude to have been as great of a composer. That is more a suggestion that Buxtehude is underrated than Chopin is overrated.

But we can rest assured that Chopin did not choose to compose his preludes in every major and minor key as a tribute to Bach because he considered Bach to be an inferior composer.
How you know Chopin considered Bach to be inferior. Bach was out of date in the classical period already.
Although fugal structures were were used by both Beethoven and Mozart.
In the 19th century many of Bach's music was lost .Mendelssohn rescued and made it a mission to produce some of the greatest choral music ever written.
Chopin moved to Paris as a young adult and I once read Chopin had never even heard any of Beethoven's work.
So yes an unusally original composer whose music has a kind nervous tension about it. His music came directly from his pianistic gifts.
If Chopin ever wrote that he did not like Bach it should be ignored. Composers often said odd things. Just read Mozarts
letters for example......
Yes Chopin did use counterpoint an example is in one of those Mazurkas.( well known one in C#minor) I do not see the purpose of this competition. Mendelsohn for all his good compositions wrote loads of rubbish.There is almost a whole museum of this unpublished stuff.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/23/20 07:49 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
pianoloverus #3028370 09/23/20 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by chopinetto
Bach, Mozart and Beethoven are not greater. Sorry.
Inane.
Inane is kinder than insane !

Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
chopinetto #3028373 09/23/20 08:13 PM
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I love Chopin. I love how his works fall so beautifully under the hands (not always but more often than not). I love how he brings out the exquisite male baritone voice of the piano. But no, he's not the greatest. However it's equally insane to say he isn't among the very best.


With new students Chopin was chiefly anxious to do away with any stiffness in, or cramped, or convulsive movement of the hand, thereby obtaining the first requisite of fine technique "souplesse" (suppleness). -- Carl Mikuli on Chopin the teacher.
Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
Dušan Holý #3028383 09/23/20 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dušan Holý
Just a few days ago, I sightreaded through the book of Mazurkas, and I've found that half of them are completely uninteresting, almost "shitty" pieces (probably just made for some "easy" money).
I never played too much Chopin. He has great pieces, no discussion. But I think if there is any composer kind of brutally "overhyped" in public meaning, it would be Chopin.
My mother who is the person who listen to lots of classical music, she can't stand Chopin. She finds his music way too kitschy.
And I am pretty bored by that too. Often same harmonical modulations... - this half tone, chromatic descending modulation, for example. Nice, but boring when you hear it for 10th times in different piece.
Well... I always say - great about piano is that we have such a repertoir that we can always choose. Poor french horn virtuosos who have to play 3 concerts and 2 sonatas for the whole life...
You sight read the whole book of Mazurkas. Well just try and analyze some of the harmonies of the more complex Mazurkas ., I bet you can't !!! Then try and analyze some of the harmonies of the Etudes , Nocturnes , Sonatas ....I bet you can't. Have a look at the some of Mendelssohn's pieces -- easy
Some of the things you and your mother say just show great ignorance!

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/23/20 09:23 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
chopinetto #3028391 09/23/20 09:53 PM
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The whole concept of "The Great Composer " only came about in the 19th century when composers ,poets ,philosophers began to recognize each other as great. The idea is steeped in n the philosophy of 19th centuary Romantiscm.It is interesting that this concept is still SO important to us today.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/23/20 09:56 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
bennevis #3030685 09/30/20 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
There can only be one winner, and it is
Me? Pick me! Pick me! AHH The suspense.. I can't... laugh laugh

Re: Chopin is the greatest of all time
Lady Bird #3030690 09/30/20 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
The whole concept of "The Great Composer " only came about in the 19th century when composers ,poets ,philosophers began to recognize each other as great. The idea is steeped in n the philosophy of 19th centuary Romantiscm.It is interesting that this concept is still SO important to us today.
bc he is the greatest....................................... PERIOD

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