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Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
ShiroKuro #3027183 09/20/20 02:23 PM
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I wouldn't select oak for a conventional case, but it's a great wood for carving. People are entitled to their own tastes, of course, but I'm a great fan of wood carving in trim work and furniture.

Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
j&j #3027190 09/20/20 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
The baroque carving doesn’t speak of the opulence of the age but of the great skill of the craftsman.

Good point!!


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Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
ShiroKuro #3027211 09/20/20 03:48 PM
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Yes one's kitchen table used to be made of oak , but yes great
craftsmanship.

Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
Lady Bird #3027215 09/20/20 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well its often what we can afford .Either of those incredibly
art art case pianos would not look great in my house.Although we used to save and buy a few beautiful things most of our furniture is rather ordinary.
Some nicer things belonged to my grand parents.
When comes to Neo Gothic furniture ,architecture of the late 19th century , I rather like it.
There was a beautifully carved Steinways grand here recently
which was(to me) was incredible. Anyway parhaps Harry has bought Megan a beautifully carved ,restored piano.
Perhaps its a Bosendorfer.(or even a modern Sauter Ambient grand 😄 designed by Peter Maly)
Anyway I wish they would go back to Europe, live quietly in somewhere in some castle where they cannot or offend the "Royals" in the UK. I wish them all the luck they can have to survive in thier marriage with that kind of pressure .

I’m missing the connection between this piano and Harry and Megan. Are they buying a vintage piano? I think they have now bought a home in LA which is quite far from ‘the royals’. I’ve checked the prior posts and I’m not seeing anything connecting them.


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Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
ShiroKuro #3027222 09/20/20 04:06 PM
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Read Vikendios post.He mentions nouveau rich and aristocracy. It was just a development from that. In other words this Bosendorfer is for the "nouveau rich"

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/20/20 04:09 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
Lady Bird #3027239 09/20/20 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
When comes to Neo Gothic furniture ,architecture of the late 19th century , I rather like it.

I fully agree with you : Neo Gothic was the best the late 19th century could offer. It was the influence of John Ruskin and Viollet-le-Duc.


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Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
ShiroKuro #3027320 09/20/20 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Originally Posted by j&j
The baroque carving doesn’t speak of the opulence of the age but of the great skill of the craftsman.

Good point!!

The two go hand in hand because someone had to pay for the time that craftsman invested in the carving and society needed sufficient opulence and inequality for the craftsman to get the demand to develop those skills.

Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
Lady Bird #3027321 09/20/20 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Read Vikendios post.He mentions nouveau rich and aristocracy. It was just a development from that. In other words this Bosendorfer is for the "nouveau rich"
That is what Vikendios says which suddenly got me thinking
about Royal people.I do not think many people think about the nouveau rich anymore. As for the oak table ,quite expensive nowadays to buy oak furniture.

Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
ShiroKuro #3027330 09/21/20 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikendios
[quote=Lady Bird]
When comes to Neo Gothic furniture ,architecture of the late 19th century , I rather like it.

I fully agree with you : Neo Gothic was the best the late 19th century could offer. It was the influence of John Ruskin and Viollet-le-Duc.[/quote

Sorry the quote does not work. Vikendios wrote the above .Neither does Delete !
🌻 😈

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/21/20 01:40 AM. Reason: spelling
Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
dogperson #3027345 09/21/20 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well its often what we can afford .Either of those incredibly
art art case pianos would not look great in my house.Although we used to save and buy a few beautiful things most of our furniture is rather ordinary.
Some nicer things belonged to my grand parents.
When comes to Neo Gothic furniture ,architecture of the late 19th century , I rather like it.
There was a beautifully carved Steinways grand here recently
which was(to me) was incredible. Anyway parhaps Harry has bought Megan a beautifully carved ,restored piano.
Perhaps its a Bosendorfer.(or even a modern Sauter Ambient grand 😄 designed by Peter Maly)
Anyway I wish they would go back to Europe, live quietly in somewhere in some castle where they cannot or offend the "Royals" in the UK. I wish them all the luck they can have to survive in thier marriage with that kind of pressure .

I’m missing the connection between this piano and Harry and Megan. Are they buying a vintage piano? I think they have now bought a home in LA which is quite far from ‘the royals’. I’ve checked the prior posts and I’m not seeing anything connecting them.

No, not LA, but near Santa Barbara, in an estate called Riven Rock which has its own bizarre history written about in a book entitled Riven Rock by TC Boyle, one of my favorite authors:

https://www.hellomagazine.com/homes...-markle-house-riven-rock-estate-history/

It seems like it is time to mention Adolf Loos and his essay: Ornament and Crime:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornament_and_Crime

Regardless of the skill of the craftsman, I could not live with their creation. It does seem so out of style, with that excessive ornamentation, while objects with minimal ornamentation from one hundred years ago still seem in style, to me.

Last edited by LarryK; 09/21/20 03:45 AM.
Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
ShiroKuro #3027395 09/21/20 09:15 AM
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Ahhhh, political and historical controversies and struggles are indeed reflected in the history and development of the piano. I haven’t traveled the world but I have traveled and marveled at some of the opulent estates and renowned cathedrals. Rather than focus on the incredible wealth and horrible unfairness of the economic systems in place I’d just rather admire the beauty of the carvings and the artwork. The talent and skill of the artistisan is far more beautiful and worthy of admiration rather than focus on the economic conditions that brought the artisan to do the incredible work at Biltmore house. The artist’s work lives on where the incredible wealth that bought the artist’s time and talent is long gone. The sad history of the Palace at Versailles speaks to that. I don’t want baroque ornamentation in my own little home but I still enjoy looking and admiring the crafts person’s incredible work.


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Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
j&j #3027409 09/21/20 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Ahhhh, political and historical controversies and struggles are indeed reflected in the history and development of the piano. I haven’t traveled the world but I have traveled and marveled at some of the opulent estates and renowned cathedrals. Rather than focus on the incredible wealth and horrible unfairness of the economic systems in place I’d just rather admire the beauty of the carvings and the artwork. The talent and skill of the artistisan is far more beautiful and worthy of admiration rather than focus on the economic conditions that brought the artisan to do the incredible work at Biltmore house. The artist’s work lives on where the incredible wealth that bought the artist’s time and talent is long gone. The sad history of the Palace at Versailles speaks to that. I don’t want baroque ornamentation in my own little home but I still enjoy looking and admiring the crafts person’s incredible work.
Of course. So much of great art of every type wouldn't have been created without people to pay for it.

Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
ShiroKuro #3027426 09/21/20 10:57 AM
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Larry
Adolf loos's philosophical theories are "old hat".They were written at the turn of the century in the early 1900's. They were later reprinted in 1931 in Germany. You obviously know what was happening in Germany at that time.
His racial theories about the Papuan of New Guinea, upheld purely because of thier interest in tattoos (ornamentation) or rather the excuse is made up to prove they are "not fully evolved".
This obsession in social Darwinism was almost a world wide
phenomenon which were put to use by the Nazi's .
Eugenics was practiced outside of Germany,in fact far closer to home. We know what ultimately happened in Germany!

Another thing this man who lived in Megan and Harry's home.
He was confined there for many years. In those days people were misdiagnosed with schizophrenia and that is a fact. Many
people who suffered severe depression or Bipolar disorder were called schizoprenic. The one is a disorder of thought ,the other a disorder of mood.
Wealthy people with good famies were supported and were often confined to thier homes.Others were locked up in asylums. Forgotten about by relatives who were ashamed of them.
Virginia Woolf was Bipolar (Manic Depressive) and used to be confined to her home during her manic periods, supported by family.
When she recovered from these episodes of mania and depression she wrote really great books. Do you think her house was haunted ........?
So we know many of the great artists who suffered from mental illness. No there is nothing weird about the Sussex's home. The man was ill .Thats all. Now days there is affective medication and treatments.
The brain is just an organ ,like a stomach , a liver. Even when a person smiles there is a chemical reaction........
Schizophrenia ,there are "no demons" just sick people.

Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
ShiroKuro #3027439 09/21/20 11:30 AM
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Hello Lady Bird,

I only brought up Loos because of his ties to furniture and design and did not in any way mean to venture into eugenics or the awfulness of his racial theories, or anything to do with Germany in the 1930s.

We live in a world of little ornamentation, not a world of excess ornamentation, which is why this piano was posted here in the first place, because of its shock value. Loos argued for less ornamentation, and only that which was necessary.

Yes, I know the story of Riven Rock. Read TC Boyle's book. He's an amazing writer.

Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
j&j #3027448 09/21/20 11:35 AM
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This:

Originally Posted by j&j
I don’t want baroque ornamentation in my own little home but I still enjoy looking and admiring the crafts person’s incredible work.

Same.


Started piano June 1999.
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Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
pianoloverus #3027457 09/21/20 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by j&j
Ahhhh, political and historical controversies and struggles are indeed reflected in the history and development of the piano. I haven’t traveled the world but I have traveled and marveled at some of the opulent estates and renowned cathedrals. Rather than focus on the incredible wealth and horrible unfairness of the economic systems in place I’d just rather admire the beauty of the carvings and the artwork. The talent and skill of the artistisan is far more beautiful and worthy of admiration rather than focus on the economic conditions that brought the artisan to do the incredible work at Biltmore house. The artist’s work lives on where the incredible wealth that bought the artist’s time and talent is long gone. The sad history of the Palace at Versailles speaks to that. I don’t want baroque ornamentation in my own little home but I still enjoy looking and admiring the crafts person’s incredible work.
Of course. So much of great art of every type wouldn't have been created without people to pay for it.

This has always been true. The costs must be paid, somehow. Ruhlmann, who designed the most exquisite furniture, was never able to charge his wealthy clients enough to pay for the furniture he designed and had built. He subsidized the construction of the furniture with the profits from his drapery business.

The reason we have so little ornamentation is that most of us simply cannot afford to, or will not, pay for it. Try to have that piano built today and you will blanch at the cost. I worked in a custom cabinetmaker's shop for a while and I saw how much the guy had to charge for his work, and he was still starving, and his customers, wealthy lawyers many of them, were still complaining about the cost.

Last edited by LarryK; 09/21/20 12:01 PM.
Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
LarryK #3027467 09/21/20 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryK
Hello Lady Bird,

I only brought up Loos because of his ties to furniture and design and did not in any way mean to venture into eugenics or the awfulness of his racial theories, or anything to do with Germany in the 1930s.

We live in a world of little ornamentation, not a world of excess ornamentation, which is why this piano was posted here in the first place, because of its shock value. Loos argued for less ornamentation, and only that which was necessary.

Yes, I know the story of Riven Rock. Read TC Boyle's book. He's an amazing writer.
Its just that his philosophy of art is outdated. I know of course you are not interested his ideas of "incomplete evolution" in some human beings. It sounds like his ideas of degenerative art being tied to racial theories is what caused Nazi's and other extreme right wing organizations in Germany to make use of his work.
A more modern ,but difficult to follow art philosophy is by Anne Langer and is called "Feeling and Form". Perhaps your library has it.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/21/20 12:06 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
Lady Bird #3027481 09/21/20 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by LarryK
Hello Lady Bird,

I only brought up Loos because of his ties to furniture and design and did not in any way mean to venture into eugenics or the awfulness of his racial theories, or anything to do with Germany in the 1930s.

We live in a world of little ornamentation, not a world of excess ornamentation, which is why this piano was posted here in the first place, because of its shock value. Loos argued for less ornamentation, and only that which was necessary.

Yes, I know the story of Riven Rock. Read TC Boyle's book. He's an amazing writer.
Its just that his philosophy of art is outdated. I know of course you are not interested his ideas of "incomplete evolution" in some human beings. It sounds like his ideas of degenerative art being tied to racial theories is what caused Nazi's and other extreme right wing organizations in Germany to make use of his work.
A more modern ,but difficult to follow art philosophy is by Anne Langer and is called "Feeling and Form". Perhaps your library has it.

What does Anne Langer have to say about ornamentation in furniture building?

Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
ShiroKuro #3027659 09/21/20 10:43 PM
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I do not think piano art cabinets need to follow "strict laws of art" I mean if it is going into one's home. Surely one forgets about the philosophy of art. I tend to have a whole cabinet full
of all kinds of cheap figurines, and other worthless things. Most were given to me by someone ,some are souvenirs from other countries, endless things our son made at school , sea shells. Apart from these I have nicer things ,a bronze statue,
cutlery that belonged to my grandmother which traveled to 3 different continents with my family. Some very good paintings, some by my husband and myself. (disasters, but meaningful disasters )
What I am saying Larry, is that its OK as long as its one's home
and one "feels at home"

Last edited by Lady Bird; 09/21/20 10:45 PM. Reason: Spelling
Re: 1927 Bösendorfer 9' 4'' Concert Grand w/ Amazing Case!!!
Lady Bird #3027709 09/22/20 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I do not think piano art cabinets need to follow "strict laws of art" I mean if it is going into one's home. Surely one forgets about the philosophy of art. I tend to have a whole cabinet full
of all kinds of cheap figurines, and other worthless things. Most were given to me by someone ,some are souvenirs from other countries, endless things our son made at school , sea shells. Apart from these I have nicer things ,a bronze statue,
cutlery that belonged to my grandmother which traveled to 3 different continents with my family. Some very good paintings, some by my husband and myself. (disasters, but meaningful disasters )
What I am saying Larry, is that its OK as long as its one's home
and one "feels at home"

Chacun son goût, as the French say, meaning, each to his own taste.

The carving and marquetry on the case are amazing, of that there is no doubt. It’s remarkably preserved so somebody took care of it. I’d love to know its history.

It’s funny that this piano was built in 1927 and my new to me little house was built in 1925, and my house does not have this level of ornamentation, besides a couple of stained glass windows. Perhaps this piano was out of style by the time it was completed, lol.

I remember reading a story of a group of craftsmen in New York riding on a bus by one of the exhibits of modern furnishings, it could have been at the Park Ave Armory or the Museum of Modern Art, and the workmen shook their fists at the exhibit because they knew the designs contained within spelled their doom.

But, anyway, how does the piano sound? Somebody go play it.

Last edited by LarryK; 09/22/20 04:43 AM.
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