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Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
#3025846 09/17/20 01:44 AM
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Hello everybody, im a newbie, anyone can suggest which one is better for upright piano with that 20 years old kawai or yamaha and the new ritmuller?
Does anybody has an old ritmuller? Is there any problem with the tunes?

I tend to choose Ritmuller, because with the same price i got the new one, besides that yamaha and kawai. but I doubt it is made in China, because as far as I know, my friend's Pearl River piano when he bought was new, after 5 years of use, the tone is not the same as the first time when he bought it. And as far as i know, my friends piano has every year tuned, and he take good care of it.

Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Renee14 #3025878 09/17/20 04:58 AM
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The Kawai might be a much better or a much worse piano than the Ritmuller - with used pianos it all depends on the condition and history of the individual piano. Best thing to do is to play pianos and find one you like, then if it is a used model pay an independent tech to evaluate it for you - if it is in good condition then get it otherwise walk away and look again.

Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Renee14 #3025909 09/17/20 06:58 AM
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Can you be more specific about the models? Each brand you mentioned offers more than one size and quality level for their vertical pianos.

Ritmüller is built by Pearl River as their more premium series:

https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/pearl-river/

Of their verticals, I am a fan of the UH121R.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Renee14 #3025912 09/17/20 07:02 AM
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Rittmuller are made in China by Pearl River however, I believe Rittmuller use premium components and finishing. So it is probably the best line from Pearl River. I have no experience with Rittmuller but I have heard very good reviews and reports. How they stand up over time is yet unknown.

On the other hand, Kawai and Yamaha are world renown for their quality and reliability. You certainly have to play them and make your own decision on sound and feel.


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
terminaldegree #3025927 09/17/20 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Can you be more specific about the models? Each brand you mentioned offers more than one size and quality level for their vertical pianos.

Ritmüller is built by Pearl River as their more premium series:

https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/pearl-river/

Of their verticals, I am a fan of the UH121R.
Thank you 4 ur advice.. maybe id like to choose Yamaha u1 and ritmuller 118 😁 if kawai has not decided yet. Still searching for the same price..

Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Renee14 #3025960 09/17/20 11:41 AM
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Hi Renee14!

I’ll be blunt but I hope I won’t offend. There is a reason why 20 year or older Yamahas and Kawai’s are in the same price category as a brand new Ritmuller. Both Yamaha and Kawai have won international fame and recognition for their piano designs and have a long history of making great pianos. Ritmuller, which I haven’t played, doesn’t have that reputation yet. You don’t mention which models and exact ages you’re comparing so it’s really hard to advise. New pianos have their advantages. No one’s played it hard, new hammers, new strings, new soundboard but it will need more tuning appointments the first 3 years. With used, you can buy a higher quality piano at a discounted price. With used condition is everything and you do need a piano technician to inspect it.

Best Wishes


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Renee14 #3027331 09/21/20 01:41 AM
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As a new member here, I don’t want to run contrary to others, but I do have recent experience with this dilemma. I originally bought a used Yamaha in spite of preferring a Ritmuller’s sound. Less than a year later I traded the Yamaha in for a new Perzina and I’m so glad I did. The Perzina just allows me to play with a lot more dynamic expression. I tried most of the brands available in the Silicon Valley. It’s not that I liked the Perzina more than any other, but the fact that it was competitive with pianos that cost double and even ten times the price, I couldn’t pass it up. The Ritmuller UH121R was definitely on my list of pianos that punched well above their weight. The ultimate upright that I played that didn’t get into extreme prices was the largest In the W. Hoffman Professional series. It’s really an incredible piano that genuinely competes with Bechstein’s Model 8. It was so tempting to get that piano but I just couldn’t justify it given my skill level. That said, I wouldn’t have regretted that purchase either.

Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Johnny English #3027363 09/21/20 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny English
As a new member here,
Welcome
Originally Posted by Johnny English
I don’t want to run contrary to others,
Please do, that's what makes it interesting here .
Originally Posted by Johnny English
but I do have recent experience with this dilemma. I originally bought a used Yamaha in spite of preferring a Ritmuller’s sound. Less than a year later I traded the Yamaha in for a new Perzina and I’m so glad I did. The Perzina just allows me to play with a lot more dynamic expression. I tried most of the brands available in the Silicon Valley. It’s not that I liked the Perzina more than any other, but the fact that it was competitive with pianos that cost double and even ten times the price, I couldn’t pass it up. The Ritmuller UH121R was definitely on my list of pianos that punched well above their weight. The ultimate upright that I played that didn’t get into extreme prices was the largest In the W. Hoffman Professional series. It’s really an incredible piano that genuinely competes with Bechstein’s Model 8. It was so tempting to get that piano but I just couldn’t justify it given my skill level. That said, I wouldn’t have regretted that purchase either.
All very sensible Johnny. What it is all about is finding the piano that is best for you for the budget you have available. There are always likely to be more expensive and/or larger pianos than may be better but that is pretty irrelevant if they are outside budget.

Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Renee14 #3027675 09/22/20 01:26 AM
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The most important thing to me is that each of us gets to find a piano that we love and can afford, whatever that is. It’d be so boring to read the threads here if everyone bought a 30 years old Kawai k300 or Yamaha u1 and nothing else.

Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
gwing #3027936 09/22/20 04:14 PM
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Indeed. I’m so glad I traded in my Yamaha and got one I love and can easily afford. I’m at least twice the pianist I was when I bought it and I have extra money that’s going to help me better my life.

Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Johnny English #3027957 09/22/20 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny English
Indeed. I’m so glad I traded in my Yamaha and got one I love and can easily afford. I’m at least twice the pianist I was when I bought it and I have extra money that’s going to help me better my life.

No intention for high-jacking the thread but this is useful information for the OP.

What exactly really impressed you about the Perzina? Over the other pianos you tried?


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Renee14 #3027966 09/22/20 06:00 PM
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The OP asked if anyone has an older Ritmuller, so perhaps the question can be answered.

Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Lady Bird #3028067 09/23/20 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny English
Indeed. I’m so glad I traded in my Yamaha and got one I love and can easily afford. I’m at least twice the pianist I was when I bought it and I have extra money that’s going to help me better my life.

I’ll bet you got all your money or most of it back from that used Yamaha. And I’ll bet one would not get half back on a Ritmuller or Perzina bought new and traded a year later. Advantage goes to used Yamaha or Kawai.


Originally Posted by Lady Bird
The OP asked if anyone has an older Ritmuller, so perhaps the question can be answered.

I don’t think there are any older Ritmullers around. The modern ones from Pearl River haven’t been out there very long, have they?

Researching Ritmuller a bit exposes some questionable marketing to me. For example, we think of Ritmuller as having solid spruce soundboards (from European sources) and German/European hammers and other features. They are happy to have that perception.

But when you look closer only the top line has those features and the lesser lines fall back to laminated soundboards and action parts that are not from Europe. So, with Ritmuller you must do some serious homework to even know what you’re getting.

Some people will say it doesn’t matter, as long as you like the sound. Possibly, but it would matter to me.


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Lady Bird #3028128 09/23/20 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
The OP asked if anyone has an older Ritmuller, so perhaps the question can be answered.

I don't have one although I played an oldish used Ritmuller upright recently when we were piano shopping - it wasn't at all inspiring so we rapidly moved on to the next piano along the line.

Based on that small experience I would say I'd likely prefer a used Kawai or used Yamaha to a used Ritmuller. As for new Ritmullers - I haven't tried one.

Last edited by gwing; 09/23/20 07:45 AM.
Re: Used yamaha/kawai vs new ritmuller
Renee14 #3028140 09/23/20 08:54 AM
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So back to the OP’s question. Again I never tried a Ritmuller new or used or a Perzina. I have played new and used Yamahas and Kawai. It mostly comes down to the OPs personal preference. If a new Ritmuller plays and sounds the best and the price is more attractive than that would be “the one”. With that comes the risk that should the OP later wants to sell it and buy a better piano or future plans change and the Ritmuller needs to be sold, it is very likely that the OP would have a harder time selling the Ritmuller than a Yamaha or Kawai because Ritmuller is a lesser known brand at this point. The OP might check PianoMart, FB Marketplace and EBay to see what Ritmuller pianos are for sale and are already sold and check the pricing.

Chinese pianos have dramatically improved so I’ve read, so it would be worthwhile for OP to research resale value of the different pianos brands.

I really have no preference on what the OP chooses or why, just that the OP makes the best decision for themselves.

Last edited by j&j; 09/23/20 08:57 AM.

J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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