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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3026629 09/19/20 04:23 AM
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Thanks for the insights, JoBert.

Seems that should contribute to make the Novus more robust and durable than otherwise. As long as the action, pedals, sensors and MIDI out work pristine, you won't hear me complain smile I tend to think the less electronic components there are, the better for durability but I can be wrong.

Btw I'll search on the forum for longevity stats on the AvantGrands, that may provide me some reinsurance about hybrids durability... or not wink


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
floknot #3026652 09/19/20 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by floknot
Btw I'll search on the forum for longevity stats on the AvantGrands, that may provide me some reinsurance about hybrids durability... or not wink
One data point: my NU1 now owned 8+ years and no problems. It was serviced by Yamaha at 5 years and some minor action regulation by myself this year.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3026655 09/19/20 06:29 AM
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I know, your satisfied with your NU1; but are you super happy?

Why be only satisfied when you can get an N1X and be happy?

Surely, the release of the N1X-mkII will make you sad, again, but when that happens you simply spend yet another couple of grands and be happy, again....

Super-happy will be more difficult to reach, but I hear that the NV-20 will have a soundboard that’ll help you reach nirvana (even better than super-happiness).

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3026675 09/19/20 07:18 AM
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Hi Floknot,

You might want to check out Robert Estrin's "LivingPianosVideos" channel on Youtube.

Like Cybergene, he's been featuring his own piano controller made from a modified Grand Piano action feeding into a computer system in his most recent posts. Although he's not specifically detailed the design details I would imagine that he's using a series of optical sensors within the action, providing midi signalling to the computer, to trigger the VST sound engine and thence to whatever audio reproduction method chosen (headphones, monitor speakers, PA etc.).

I have no idea whether either Cybergene or Robert Estrin intend to actively market their solutions as the market would inevitably be limited. Mr Estrin has the benefit of being an established piano dealer and would have access to a variety of supply sources for the requisite components, both new and used, with which to experiment with and this may help him commercialise any solution developed.

I hope that you find a workable solution to your circumstances that are, unfortunately, all too common.

Best wishes,

Tog


Standard: Absolute beginner. Currently butchering Bach BWV846!
Kit: Kawai MP11SE; Focal Alpha 80 monitors (pair); the original REL 'Storm' Sub-woofer from the early 1990's ( manufactured by BK Electronics Ltd on behalf of REL); Roland Z-Stand; generic studio style speaker stands; HP Grado SR60
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Pete14 #3026732 09/19/20 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
I know, your satisfied with your NU1; but are you super happy?

Why be only satisfied when you can get an N1X and be happy?

Surely, the release of the N1X-mkII will make you sad, again, but when that happens you simply spend yet another couple of grands and be happy, again....

Super-happy will be more difficult to reach, but I hear that the NV-20 will have a soundboard that’ll help you reach nirvana (even better than super-happiness).

I think you missed your calling Pete14. You should become a novelist smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3026734 09/19/20 10:25 AM
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blush

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3027103 09/20/20 09:10 AM
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hi, got a basic question, but i just can't find the answer thru the web/forum:

i got interested in NV10 because of this: it recreates the change in key weight when pedal is used, i.e. when damper pedal is depressed, key action becomes lighter just like in acoustics, and when pedal is not pressed, keys are heavier as they lift the individual dampers, just like acoustics. funny even the NV10 website doesn't outright explain that NV10 has this feature, and neither is it explicitly spelt out in marketing / review videos. i also can't find info on how technically this is achieved - is it a mechanical link from pedal to all dampers just like in acoustics?

second part of my query is, what other pianos achieve this reasonably well? [ i notice NV5 website says it does achieve this, on an upright action. ] and which Yamaha competitor tries to simulate / achieve this as well, the N1X & N3X ? and N2, and no other competitors ? The Yamaha website doesn't seem to explicitly say this.

thanks!

Last edited by kailord; 09/20/20 09:13 AM.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
kailord #3027105 09/20/20 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by kailord
i also can't find info on how technically this is achieved - is it a mechanical link from pedal to all dampers just like in acoustics?

second part of my query is, what other pianos achieve this reasonably well? [ i notice NV5 website says it does achieve this, on an upright action. ] and which Yamaha competitor tries to simulate / achieve this as well, the N1X & N3X ? and N2, and no other competitors ? The Yamaha website doesn't seem to explicitly say this.

thanks!

Yes both NV-5 and NV-10 have full mechanical damper assemblies. That means that each key has a back action with an individually weighted, graded damper block just like an acoustic. There's also a damper rail that lifts all dampers together when you press the sustain pedal. The pedal is mechanically linked, on the NV-10 by a rod, to the damper rail by a lever assembly just as you'll find on an acoustic, using the same/similar parts/principles.

No other DP to my knowledge does this, definitely not the AvantGrands. I don't think it's a critical features but it's absolutely noticeable and makes a huge difference in the realism of the feel of the action.

If you press a key gently, you can feel the damper weight engage and add weight to the key, and you can feel that weight lift as you press the damper pedal. And as you play you can feel the keypresses in your foot and feel the damper presses in your fingers. It's all very "connected" in an authentic way.

NV-10:
Mechanical link from the pedal rod to the action (the rightmost rod links to the black/green wooden lever):
[Linked Image]

You can see the individual key damper blocks at the back of the action here at the left of the piano:
[Linked Image]


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3027174 09/20/20 12:43 PM
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i suppose it's important for the piano learner who hopes to be able to handle an acoustic outside using an NV10 for practice? but for those who already have learnt acoustic, removing such a feature (i.e. buying a DP that doesn't have it) is easy to adapt to. or a learner who doesn't intend to handle an acoustic can do without learning it.

i took an interest in this, in the context of the first scenario, to learn acoustic handling, using NV10 as the tool (instead of buying an acoustic) - the students in this case being myself (re-learning as a hobby) and my young child (new learner). and it seems these 2 are the only DPs that can do that. the other cousin would be silent pianos but they have a flaw in the increase in letoff distance that hampers slightly soft playing, so the NV5 NV10 solution eliminates this, that's what i gather ... any comments? thanks for the above info!

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3027202 09/20/20 02:30 PM
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On your first question, I don't think it's really that crucial, it's a fine detail and adds to the realism, but I've never felt or heard that it aids in practice; I think that it's more for those who really appreciate having it (rather than needing it). Maybe higher level players who are more finer-tuned to the action weight have more direct utility from it.

On the second, it's a good question whether the hammer stop bar on a hybrid is at the level of the strings, or the same as that on silent piano (such that it stops the hammers just before the string height) and thus would be regulated the same and have the same compromise as a silent system.

Since the actual sensing systems are the same on the hybrids as on the factory silents, it would probably be easier to position and regulate them similarly. I don't know if that's the case though.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3027667 09/21/20 11:27 PM
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Hello guys,

Is there a specific product recommendation for cleaning and polishing the NV10? Cabinet and keys separately I assume...

The user manual says use a dry cloth, but I am not sure if it will clean all those finger prints everywhere on the cabinet without scratching the finish.

Thanks,


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3027816 09/22/20 10:04 AM
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I use this. Piano and key cleaner: Music Nomad MN132 Complete Piano Cleaning and Polishing Care Kit for Gloss Pianos. At Amazon

Last edited by ˆTomLCˆ; 09/22/20 10:05 AM.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
ˆTomLCˆ #3027848 09/22/20 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ˆTomLCˆ
I use this. Piano and key cleaner: Music Nomad MN132 Complete Piano Cleaning and Polishing Care Kit for Gloss Pianos. At Amazon

Thanks Tom.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3027849 09/22/20 11:30 AM
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I was going to post something earlier, but I took a tip from David B in the N1X thread and gave car wax (!) a shot on my NV-10. Wow, it's amazing. I don't want to sound like a simonizer salesman, but the wax is a pure win. It brings out the deep gloss in the PE finish, repels dust (literally makes it such that less dust falls onto the piano because it slides right off), acts as an oleophobic coating against fingerprints, is much smoother to the touch, and even makes hard-to-clean areas (such as the finish right next to raised lips like the circular speaker grills on the top) much easier to manage and stay grime-free. And the wax keeps the finish nice for weeks and weeks, it really resists buildup of dust and fingerprints.

I've never used a piano polish like Cory's before so I don't know if it does the same thing, but I can see myself waxing the piano finish a couple times a year.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3027851 09/22/20 11:36 AM
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I’ve never applied any wax/polish to anything hence a silly question probably: isn’t it dangerous to apply something (semi?) liquid to the piano? I’m afraid it can go through the speaker grills and also on the keyboard, etc. Or it’s not like that?


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #3027853 09/22/20 11:43 AM
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I think it's advisable to never apply anything directly to a piano surface (including an aersolized spray). The wax I used is indeed a thick liquid, but I applied the wax directly to a microfiber cloth, and then wiped the cloth against the piano surface. No idea if that's a preferred or risky practice in itself.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Gombessa #3027854 09/22/20 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I've never used a piano polish like Cory's before so I don't know if it does the same thing, but I can see myself waxing the piano finish a couple times a year.

Yes grin



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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Gombessa #3027855 09/22/20 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I was going to post something earlier, but I took a tip from David B in the N1X thread and gave car wax (!) a shot on my NV-10. Wow, it's amazing. I don't want to sound like a simonizer salesman, but the wax is a pure win. It brings out the deep gloss in the PE finish, repels dust (literally makes it such that less dust falls onto the piano because it slides right off), acts as an oleophobic coating against fingerprints, is much smoother to the touch, and even makes hard-to-clean areas (such as the finish right next to raised lips like the circular speaker grills on the top) much easier to manage and stay grime-free. And the wax keeps the finish nice for weeks and weeks, it really resists buildup of dust and fingerprints.
Bold supplied.

I'm amazed at the diminished amount of dust collected on the piano after waxing and the ease of removal. I know dust probably doesn't bother some people, but I'm distracted by it. What type of wax did you use?

God Bless,
David


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
David B #3027858 09/22/20 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by David B
I'm amazed at the diminished amount of dust collected on the piano after waxing and the ease of removal. I know dust probably doesn't bother some people, but I'm distracted by it. What type of wax did you use?

Yes, dust collects like nobody's business on these pianos, and if it's is close to the kitchen, I'm sure airborne grease does too. And without wax, the naked PE finish is really "sticky" and you can't just dust it off, it sticks to the finish.

It turns out I had a 5-year bottle of Maguire's "NXT Tech Wax 2.0" that I never really got around to using on my car smile Apparently it's one of the ones you described that doesn't flake/dust off when buffed. The only real problem is that applying wax indoors does create a strong chemical odor that takes a couple of hours to disperse, so it makes sense to have a lot of windows open or wax it shortly before you leave the house. There's no lingering odor after that though.

Also, I think the foil Kawai logo on the fallboard is laminated, and the wax doesn't seem to react to it at all, which is a good thing.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Gombessa #3027880 09/22/20 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Yes, dust collects like nobody's business on these pianos, and if it's is close to the kitchen, I'm sure airborne grease does too. And without wax, the naked PE finish is really "sticky" and you can't just dust it off, it sticks to the finish.

Yeah, without the wax on I feel like I'm just moving dust around and it ends up collecting in the those areas you mentioned.

Quote
It turns out I had a 5-year bottle of Maguire's "NXT Tech Wax 2.0" that I never really got around to using on my car smile Apparently it's one of the ones you described that doesn't flake/dust off when buffed.

I've never tried their NXT. I've always been a fan of the Ultimate wax after switching from traditional carnauba years ago. They are both sealants and I believe neither of them contain cleaners so either one should work. I think it's important to avoid polishes and waxes that haze/powder when dry. I use liquid on my cars and will never to back to paste. Liquid is so much easier to apply.

God Bless,
David


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Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Completed
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