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Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
#3026785 09/19/20 01:06 PM
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Who's with me?
Its quite impossible to tell anything about the dynamic capabilities of a digital piano with a jazz piece. Especially with the kind of pieces they usually choose to play.
I can get a toy casio piano from 1980s and make it sound good with playing jazz.

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Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026789 09/19/20 01:18 PM
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Most of the reviewers are not particularly accomplished players, so they just stick to pieces they know and play, probably they gig live, when not sellings pianos, at weddings etc.. They are sales people not pianists.

Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026795 09/19/20 01:30 PM
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This isn't piano, but I really just love a good classical v. jazz rant!



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Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026807 09/19/20 02:14 PM
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One very nice thing about a well-played jazz demo is that you CAN play everything someone would want to hear, since you're just making it up -- quiet passages, loud passages, long-held notes -- while with classical music you're supposed to play what's on the page. I'd recommend that if you don't like the reviews, go to a store and try the instruments out. Play what you are planning to play.


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Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026808 09/19/20 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by karoloydi
Who's with me?
Its quite impossible to tell anything about the dynamic capabilities of a digital piano with a jazz piece. Especially with the kind of pieces they usually choose to play.
I can get a toy casio piano from 1980s and make it sound good with playing jazz.
I agree. An instrument with good dynamics is fundamental to learn piano seriously. And not just for classical music.
There are some sellers on youtube that play almost only "strong" jazz pieces, where you don't need great dynamic capabilities from the instrument, but just some decent quality in the velocities from mf to ff. And (casually?) that's the range in which most low/middle-range digital pianos sound better, because that's the range where most of the (very few) velocity layers are placed.

Tony from Bonners Music is one of the few sellers that plays various musical genres and that's what I like more from his videos.

Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026830 09/19/20 03:14 PM
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Jazz is not ‘just making it up’ as you go; that’s a misconception. It’s not free-association, but rather structured improvisation. If some dude decides to just pound away mindlessly at the piano and call it ‘jazz’, that’s his problem, but it’s not freaking jazz!

You want to hear dynamic contrasts that go beyond the usual ppp to fff? Listen to Gonzalo Rubalcaba; the ‘sounds’ and shades he is able to create on the piano are way ahead of any aging legato or over-the-top fortissimo (by definition a redundancy, fff, and the reason why Beethoven went deaf).

Also, the notion that there are no ‘wrong notes’ in jazz -because, you know, who cares- is what people who have no idea what they’re talking about say. A note employed incorrectly will stick out like a sore thumb in jazz; the real issue is that ‘classical’ musicians tend to call wrong notes anything that is beyond their comfort zone. For example, an F# and a Bb in a C Major chord will be considered wrong notes for most ‘classical’ musicians because they see these as fixed states that do not correspond with ‘diatonic theory’ associated with C Major. A jazz musician approaches these notes dynamically; in other words, a Bb in a C Major chord is not wrong in and of itself, but rather depends on how and when you use the Bb within the C Major chord.

Don’t get me wrong, there are many classical musicians who understand these concepts; and yes, these are the ones who value what jazz musicians are doing. Also, in this day and age many so-called ‘jazz musicians’ can also play classical, salsa, samba, and most anything else you throw at them.

Keith Jarrett is supposedly a ‘jazz musician’, yet he’s recorded the Goldbergs and many other classical works. No, he doesn’t break into a solo halfway through the Goldbergs!

Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
Pete14 #3026843 09/19/20 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Keith Jarrett is supposedly a ‘jazz musician’, yet he’s recorded the Goldbergs and many other classical works. No, he doesn’t break into a solo halfway through the Goldbergs!

Although... I mean... I'd listen.


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Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026844 09/19/20 03:47 PM
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If there are many reviewers demonstrating jazz, it could simply be because they believe they are playing to the majority of their audience. In other words they believe jazz is a very popular genre and many really enjoy listening to the demos (even if it doesn't necessarily run a piano through its full dynamic range). So point taken, but the reviewers generally accomplish their goals: pleasing their YouTube audiences and selling pianos.

I agree with ColoRodney, if you can't hear what you need from a YouTube demo, go to a store and demo everything yourself. (Just by doing this you very possibly may disagree with the conclusions of many reviewers anyway).

Full Disclosure: I love listening to jazz piano!

Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
Gombessa #3026845 09/19/20 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
This isn't piano, but I really just love a good classical v. jazz rant!


I love it! Thanks for posting.

Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026854 09/19/20 04:08 PM
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Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026874 09/19/20 04:44 PM
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There is a Polish site that used to do fairly thorough demos with classical literature as well as reviews with modern music (i.e. two demo videos) with the same instrument, their youtube channel is muzykujkropkacom...


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Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026881 09/19/20 05:06 PM
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I used to love jazz. It’s a brain exercise in a way because there’s logic and there’s music, it can be applied while improvising and is a lot of fun for the player. And if he’s one of the big names, it’s also a lot of fun for listeners. But I grew tired of jazz. It suddenly stopped bringing me any joy at all, neither as a player, nor as a listener. I guess after too much jazz it becomes too plain and obvious. I switched (back) to classical and discovered that there’s so much more to music than just what notes and chords you play. You can create an entire universe by HOW you play these notes. With that I also discovered the importance of piano sound, the way it responds, the way it blends, legato technique and the ultimate control that would allow for every single note to sing!

So, to a certain degree I agree with the OP.

Last edited by CyberGene; 09/19/20 05:08 PM.

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Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026901 09/19/20 07:08 PM
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It's been a gripe of mine from way back too. Not that there's anything wrong with demoing with a BIT of jazz, but there seems to be a boring sameness in the way reviewers demo the pianos.

Similar to the auto demos in most keyboards actually! (And we know the general public feel this way about those corny inbuilt demos, because when a new keyboard comes out with some less corny demo tunes, they make a noise about it). smile

I find it's the same deal when demonstrating the sound capabilities. Start with pianos...yes of course, then it's the same old routine of electric piano, organ, bass....when there are often so many other fine patches to choose from. It gives me the impression that the world is mainly into jazz electric piano and organ, and the wider variety of sonic pallet is non existent. I pretty much switch off now, when reviewers go into that same boring routine, including playing just jazz. It also just goes to show how the more that's changed, the more that has stayed the same. New products often boast some great new technology which they go into the same related speel of it being groundbreaking, but in the end, the older tech often sounds better?


There! I said it! As always, just my own view, yes a bit over generalised, but I got it off my chest wink

Yes the Polish music youtube channel muzykujkropkacom is an exception, I do enjoy their style of demo, musically more interesting than many.


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Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
Pete14 #3026904 09/19/20 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Jazz is not ‘just making it up’ as you go; that’s a misconception. It’s not free-association, but rather structured improvisation. If some dude decides to just pound away mindlessly at the piano and call it ‘jazz’, that’s his problem, but it’s not freaking jazz!

You want to hear dynamic contrasts that go beyond the usual ppp to fff? Listen to Gonzalo Rubalcaba; the ‘sounds’ and shades he is able to create on the piano are way ahead of any aging legato or over-the-top fortissimo (by definition a redundancy, fff, and the reason why Beethoven went deaf).

Also, the notion that there are no ‘wrong notes’ in jazz -because, you know, who cares- is what people who have no idea what they’re talking about say. A note employed incorrectly will stick out like a sore thumb in jazz; the real issue is that ‘classical’ musicians tend to call wrong notes anything that is beyond their comfort zone. For example, an F# and a Bb in a C Major chord will be considered wrong notes for most ‘classical’ musicians because they see these as fixed states that do not correspond with ‘diatonic theory’ associated with C Major. A jazz musician approaches these notes dynamically; in other words, a Bb in a C Major chord is not wrong in and of itself, but rather depends on how and when you use the Bb within the C Major chord.

Don’t get me wrong, there are many classical musicians who understand these concepts; and yes, these are the ones who value what jazz musicians are doing. Also, in this day and age many so-called ‘jazz musicians’ can also play classical, salsa, samba, and most anything else you throw at them.

Keith Jarrett is supposedly a ‘jazz musician’, yet he’s recorded the Goldbergs and many other classical works. No, he doesn’t break into a solo halfway through the Goldbergs!

👍 Many consider him the best living pianist in the world today. Listen to The Koln Concert. Played on an out of tune piano.



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Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026918 09/19/20 07:41 PM
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There's always dangers in generalizations... and the title itself has a very elitistic smell...

I can agree that some reviews of ONE particular character, the typical 'cool' guy with sporty look and the language skills of a 3rd grader, are particularly annoying because he plays always almost on the same empty style... kinda sound jazzy but far away for what I consider myself JAZZ (in capital letters).

But the initial generalization is an insult to Bill Evans, Michel Petrucciani, Keith Jarrett, Gonzalo Rubalcaba and the long list of good jazz pianists that made their music a neutral ground between two worlds, the classical and the jazz music.

It's not black or white... there are millions of grey contrasts in between, don't judge music as politics.

BEST REGARDS

Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
Deltajockey #3026936 09/19/20 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Deltajockey
I find it's the same deal when demonstrating the sound capabilities. Start with pianos...yes of course, then it's the same old routine of electric piano, organ, bass...
You forgot about such a part of routine as layering piano sound and strings, as well as the ability to split the keyboard (Wow!) into bass in the left hand and piano in the right hand to play... Jazz. )

Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026937 09/19/20 08:39 PM
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I have nothing against jazz. Indeed, in an era dominated by pop music trash, jazz has been the last hope for music claiming to be art.
Originally Posted by karoloydi
Who's with me?
Its quite impossible to tell anything about the dynamic capabilities of a digital piano with a jazz piece. Especially with the kind of pieces they usually choose to play.
I can get a toy casio piano from 1980s and make it sound good with playing jazz.
If you believe that jazz does not offer a means to judge the merits of a piano, then don't listen.
I see no reason to tell anyone not to play jazz.

Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
9190 #3026938 09/19/20 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 9190
Originally Posted by Deltajockey
I find it's the same deal when demonstrating the sound capabilities. Start with pianos...yes of course, then it's the same old routine of electric piano, organ, bass...
You forgot about such a part of routine as layering piano sound and strings, as well as the ability to split the keyboard (Wow!) into bass in the left hand and piano in the right hand to play... Jazz. )


grin

Quite right!


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Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026951 09/19/20 09:22 PM
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Nothing wrong with jazz. The real problem is demonstrators that just hit random keys and not actually play something musical.

Re: Can someone tell YouTube reviewers to stop playing Jazz?
karoloydi #3026954 09/19/20 09:28 PM
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The insipid tosh played by YouTube piano operators isn't jazz.

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