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Re: My next midi keyboard?
MartF #3023800 09/10/20 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MartF
Sorry, I live on the other side of the world, and have no idea what stores you have available blush smile

That's OK, thanks for sharing though! smile I'll rehearse with a violinist next week on a real instrument and I'll weigh if I really need the extra inches badly or I can wait a month. smile

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Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3026565 09/18/20 09:42 PM
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Hi friends! Today I had a chamber music rehearsal at school, on one of the acoustic pianos there. And a couple of inches of width on the black keys does make a huge difference in how I navigate on the keys!
So, question, shall I pick up the VPC1 or the MP11SE? Which has a better action? Many forum comments and reviews I've read favor the VPC1, but not being able to sample either instruments is making the deciding process very difficult.
Can we have an ultimate word of decision on this issue soon, or shall this indecision period continue? I don't know... But I do know that my SL-88Grand is going to have to go sometime soon...

Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3026754 09/19/20 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by David Lai
So, question, shall I pick up the VPC1 or the MP11SE? Which has a better action?

So I suppose the question boils down to the "Grand Feel" (GFI) action of the MP11SE or the "RM3 Grand II" action of the VPC1.

Is there a unicorn on this forum, reading this thread, who maybe has tried both of these and can give any input?

The GFI/GF1 action shows to be in several past instruments, while the RM3II seems to unique to the VPC1.

As I mentioned earlier, I am completely biased toward the GFIII/GF3, which is in the newer CA-series console pianos. I have tried to persuade our friend and resident virtuoso David Lai toward my position but with no luck. smile (The form factor and extra cost doesn't seem to fit the use case there, unfortunately).

If we've narrowed down to GF1 (MP11SE) or RM3II (VPC1), which would you choose, PianoWorld?


Previous owner of a Yahama P-120 - now has new life with a student
New owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: My next midi keyboard?
kimby #3026775 09/19/20 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kimby
Originally Posted by David Lai
So, question, shall I pick up the VPC1 or the MP11SE? Which has a better action?

So I suppose the question boils down to the "Grand Feel" (GFI) action of the MP11SE or the "RM3 Grand II" action of the VPC1.

Is there a unicorn on this forum, reading this thread, who maybe has tried both of these and can give any input?

The GFI/GF1 action shows to be in several past instruments, while the RM3II seems to unique to the VPC1.

As I mentioned earlier, I am completely biased toward the GFIII/GF3, which is in the newer CA-series console pianos. I have tried to persuade our friend and resident virtuoso David Lai toward my position but with no luck. smile (The form factor and extra cost doesn't seem to fit the use case there, unfortunately).

If we've narrowed down to GF1 (MP11SE) or RM3II (VPC1), which would you choose, PianoWorld?

Haha, great words there! smile
The reason why I decided to forego the CA79 / 99 is because Sweetwater, the nearest dealer I know, doesn't carry them. They do carry CA 49 or something, as far as I know. The only Kawai instruments they carry that has good actions on paper are the MP11SE and the VPC1. I live in Cincinnati, so it's a 3-hour drive to Sweetwater if I want to test the two instruments back to back. They are all on back order now, so we have to wait...

Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3026784 09/19/20 01:02 PM
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grin

Originally Posted by David Lai
The reason why I decided to forego the CA79 / 99 is because Sweetwater, the nearest dealer I know, doesn't carry them. ... I live in Cincinnati, so it's a 3-hour drive to Sweetwater if I want to test the two instruments back to back.

I am sure this came up already, but, are there no showrooms closer by (or the same distance) that might have a CA79 / 99 and either an MP11SE or VPC1?

I noticed that many of the large "catalog" vendors don't carry a lot of the CA series, but do have many of the slab pianos and it seemed odd to me.

For me it is academic, and for you it is obviously relevant, but, I am still curious about peoples' anecdotal comparisons of the GF1 and RM3II actions. Although I confess I have not looked on YouTube or done a lot of searching to see what others' experiences have been between those. When I started my search, it was at the beginning of the pandemic, so hands-on research (just as now) was not an option.

You probably can not go wrong with either one. VPC1 owners seem to love their VPC1s, and MP11SE owners seem to love their MP11SEs; both seem to be highly respected.

The difference seems to be the GF1 uses wooden keys and pivot action (forgive my technical inaccuracy there), whereas the RM3 seems to be a plastic folded action..? (Which I'm sure helps with the weight and size of the stage-oriented MP11SE).


Previous owner of a Yahama P-120 - now has new life with a student
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Re: My next midi keyboard?
kimby #3026814 09/19/20 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kimby
The difference seems to be the GF1 uses wooden keys and pivot action (forgive my technical inaccuracy there), whereas the RM3 seems to be a plastic folded action..?

Wrong

Re: My next midi keyboard?
9190 #3026841 09/19/20 03:39 PM
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Thanks, 9190! I stand corrected! I'm not sure how I missed it. I was looking at the RHIII (Responsive Hammer Action 3), which is a plastic folded action. This is NOT what the VPC1 has.

So, in summary:
VPC1 = RM3II, which is a wooden key.
MP11SE = GF1, which is a wooden key.

In the YouTube review by PianoManChuck, he seems to recommend a slight preference for the GF1 (MP11SE) because - wait for it - LONGER PIVOTS! smile According to Kawai's actions page (which seems to be outdated), the RM3II action of the VPC1 is an earlier version of the GF1 action of the MP11SE.

So his recommendation between these two seems to be the MP11SE based on the action.


Previous owner of a Yahama P-120 - now has new life with a student
New owner of a Kawai CA79 (and love it!)
Re: My next midi keyboard?
kimby #3026853 09/19/20 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kimby
So his recommendation between these two seems to be the MP11SE based on the action.

Rather his slight preference for GF.

Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3026871 09/19/20 04:36 PM
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From the action point of view, the only difference is the pivot point. Then it comes to another question, is the action the only thing you care about, and are the extra inches of key length worth the extra prices? Or are there other aspects that you care about other than the action?

Re: My next midi keyboard?
Harpuia #3026890 09/19/20 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
From the action point of view, the only difference is the pivot point. Then it comes to another question, is the action the only thing you care about, and are the extra inches of key length worth the extra prices? Or are there other aspects that you care about other than the action?
Well, I don't care about the key length (from the outside to the inside), but the width, especially that on a black key (from one side of the black key to the other). I find that on the SL88Grand, this is narrower compared to an acoustic grand piano. So I guess these 2 actions are similar at the end of the day, only VPC1 is heavier?

Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3026896 09/19/20 06:45 PM
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After listening to some videos by PianoManChuck, I feel that perhaps, with an over all consideration (action, price, flexibility, ETC), perhaps I may go to the VPC1 club when my time comes! I will need to buy an extra midi controller though, but that should be easier and maybe cheaper than an MP11SE. All reviews and blog posts I've read so far favor the VPC1.

Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3026916 09/19/20 07:39 PM
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Yes, the VPC1 seems to be the winner for you David.

I was just thinking, it seems a few of us go through the same process of researching a new piano, first looking at features and listening to demos. Then we try them and find the action we prefer isn't on the model we want. We end up buying based on action, and get whatever features/price/form-factor we can put up with. In my case, the MODX seemed to have everything I wanted, but I don't like the action thus ditched the idea. This is one of the things I like about electric guitars, it's quite feasible to mix and match whatever parts I like. It would be interesting if one of the DP manufactures tried a more community driven project, like Indiegogo/Drop.

Re: My next midi keyboard?
MartF #3026922 09/19/20 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MartF
Yes, the VPC1 seems to be the winner for you David.

I was just thinking, it seems a few of us go through the same process of researching a new piano, first looking at features and listening to demos. Then we try them and find the action we prefer isn't on the model we want. We end up buying based on action, and get whatever features/price/form-factor we can put up with. In my case, the MODX seemed to have everything I wanted, but I don't like the action thus ditched the idea. This is one of the things I like about electric guitars, it's quite feasible to mix and match whatever parts I like. It would be interesting if one of the DP manufactures tried a more community driven project, like Indiegogo/Drop.

Interesting. Like picking your favourite keyboard, action and form factor? That would be fun! smile
Yes, on paper, the VPC1 would be the most fitting for my over all needs. I hope one day I can try this so that all my questions would be answered.

Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3026926 09/19/20 07:57 PM
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I´ve researched a little, and some fellow pianists I know have experimented a little both actions, and they said to me that the GF action of the MP11 feels light (same problem for the PHA-50 of the Roland RD-800). On the contrary, the VPC1 is considered sustantially heavier.

Hope it helps

BEST REGARDS

Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3026942 09/19/20 08:54 PM
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Well, this is good to know. As I said, I generally prefer a heavier action. Let's see when I can test this under my fingers how they like the keys on the VPC1. smile

Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3026949 09/19/20 09:19 PM
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I'd choose the MP11SE over the VPC-1, which has an action I don't like.

Re: My next midi keyboard?
johnstaf #3026958 09/19/20 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
I'd choose the MP11SE over the VPC-1, which has an action I don't like.

Ah, so you prefer a lighter action, interesting to know. I'll report back when I've tested them out / made my decision fully or whatever, though right now it's favoring the VPC1.

Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3027001 09/20/20 01:48 AM
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What I mentioned about key length usually affects the weight when you play near the fall board. For example, when playing a B Flat Major chord, the finger has to be near the fall board. I think the key length of VPC1 is close to an upright, and that of MP11 is close to a baby grand. So if you don't find that is an issue when you play the upright, it should not matter too much.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the weight of MP11 much heavier than VPC1 so it's not really easy to lift the keyboard by one person only.

Re: My next midi keyboard?
Harpuia #3027019 09/20/20 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
What I mentioned about key length usually affects the weight when you play near the fall board. For example, when playing a B Flat Major chord, the finger has to be near the fall board. I think the key length of VPC1 is close to an upright, and that of MP11 is close to a baby grand. So if you don't find that is an issue when you play the upright, it should not matter too much.

Oh, then I do have to think again. smile Like I said, I've been reading all kinds of reviews and comments but I'm still hoping for a side by side test. So once I do that, I'm pretty sure of what to get! smile

Re: My next midi keyboard?
David Lai #3027042 09/20/20 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by David Lai
Oh, then I do have to think again. smile Like I said, I've been reading all kinds of reviews and comments but I'm still hoping for a side by side test. So once I do that, I'm pretty sure of what to get! smile

Of course, the only good test is that you check them and compare by yourself. But, to add some more spice to this thread, I bought my VPC1 used, and the seller was a ex-concert pianist. He had a Grand at home along the VPC1 and demoed the VPC1 to me with some different style pieces, using Synthogy Ivory II American Concert D. It sounded plainly gorgeus! (so now I know for sure that the controller along good VSTs is capable of produce wonderful piano sounds and it is the player who is lacking)


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