2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
76 members (3x4rt, Buzz209, anotherscott, 36251, cmb13, Anna B., David B, clothearednincompo, 16 invisible), 491 guests, and 373 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
trigalg693 #3026850 09/19/20 05:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,827
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,827
Originally Posted by trigalg693
No, no one is listening to classical music if they didn't already.
The report I quoted made it plain that streaming services were getting new listeners to classical from the younger age group, who were continuing to explore regularly from the classical playlists. Meaning that whereas they might have only have listened to pop playlists before, since the mass quarantine started, they were trying out, and liking what they heard in the classical playlists and therefore kept on listening to them.

Which can only be a good thing......(and remember, we're only talking about listeners, not budding musicians).

Incidentally, though the audience for my (all-classical) piano recitals are predominantly middle-aged and above, there is also a sizeable minority (25%) aged below 35 who have never heard classical music played live before, and liking what they heard enough to keep attending, some even asking me how they might 'get into' more of the same. A few have also enquired about how they might get started on learning piano.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
bennevis #3026861 09/19/20 05:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 443
D
Platinum Subscriber
Full Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Full Member
D
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 443
What nonsense pessimism. Is Shakespeare dead and finished? How about the sculpture of Rodin? Classical music will continue to be transmitted to those who wish to receive it. It is art. Everyone needn’t imbibe at the same intensity. Kind of a narrow scope of the good things in life to focus on a single genre of anything and declare the great unwashed who don’t share your love for it to be the end of said art. Please.

Last edited by dhull100; 09/19/20 05:18 PM.
Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
dhull100 #3026865 09/19/20 05:23 PM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 585
J
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 585
Originally Posted by dhull100
What nonsense pessimism. Is Shakespeare dead and finished? How about the sculpture of Rodin? Classical music will continue to be transmitted to those who wish to receive it. It is art. Everyone needn’t imbibe at the same intensity. Kind of a narrow scope of the good things in life to focus on a single genre of anything and declare the great unwashed who don’t share your love for it to be the end of said art. Please.

Ridiculous, you'd think they'd remember how the pyramids were built, But no, that knowledge was lost for thousands of years before modern researchers figured out again how it was done.

Humans forget, Industries collapse, Civilizations END, as does their language / art and music.

Last edited by jeffcat; 09/19/20 05:24 PM.
Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
jeffcat #3026869 09/19/20 05:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 443
D
Platinum Subscriber
Full Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Full Member
D
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by dhull100
What nonsense pessimism. Is Shakespeare dead and finished? How about the sculpture of Rodin? Classical music will continue to be transmitted to those who wish to receive it. It is art. Everyone needn’t imbibe at the same intensity. Kind of a narrow scope of the good things in life to focus on a single genre of anything and declare the great unwashed who don’t share your love for it to be the end of said art. Please.

Ridiculous, you'd think they'd remember how the pyramids were built, But no, that knowledge was lost for thousands of years before modern researchers figured out again how it was done.

Humans forget, Industries collapse, Civilizations END, as does their language / art and music.

And everyone of us turns to dirt / worm food. I don’t see your point. I am not worried about Bach in the year 3000 CE unless I make another appearance to enjoy it. Music has been transmitted one way or the other since man first sang songs. I cannot manage forces that may or may not come to be ina thousand years. Trying to keep it together through 2020.

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
jeffcat #3026888 09/19/20 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,479
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,479
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by dhull100
What nonsense pessimism. Is Shakespeare dead and finished? How about the sculpture of Rodin? Classical music will continue to be transmitted to those who wish to receive it. It is art. Everyone needn’t imbibe at the same intensity. Kind of a narrow scope of the good things in life to focus on a single genre of anything and declare the great unwashed who don’t share your love for it to be the end of said art. Please.

Ridiculous, you'd think they'd remember how the pyramids were built, But no, that knowledge was lost for thousands of years before modern researchers figured out again how it was done.

Humans forget, Industries collapse, Civilizations END, as does their language / art and music.

Come to London. You will see that classical music is very far from collapse. (At least, before covid took a hand.)

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
jeffcat #3026893 09/19/20 07:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,949
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,949
Originally Posted by jeffcat
I assure you chinese children are NOT fervent about classical music.

In the vast majority, it's something their parents make them do. The parents do it so they can <feel elevated>, having only recently had their general purchasing powers increased. Learning piano, telling other people that your kid is learning piano, that's the primary reason they send their kids to learn piano. It's a Posh move. Like wealthy americans owning horses.

My experience working with the Chinese-American clients is quite extensive. I can't say it's as bad as that. It is true some of the nouveau riche Chinese do see piano as a status symbol and piano exam certificates as another way of "proving" their financial investment in their children. But the overall picture is not as bleak as you think. And some of the Chinese-American children actually do enjoy piano and excel at it far more than their peers.

I don't know what's going on in China and my information about the people there are more limited, so I won't make a generalization that way.

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
bennevis #3026935 09/19/20 09:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 219
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 219
It's almost like the Chinese are just normal people....

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
bennevis #3026946 09/19/20 10:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,258
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,258
I think there's a point to both sides. The way I see it, people who received training in classical music have more affinity to it than people who didn't generally speaking. However "large numbers of parents forcing kids to learn to look posh and cultured" is definitely a trend that can go away, kind of like how it seems to have died a bit in Japan, and I assume Korea is next, with China following soon after.

In the Asian American community at least, what I noticed is that literally every 2nd gen immigrant kid was forced to play piano or violin, and the kids that hate it want nothing to do with classical music, so they definitely won't be making their kids learn. Many people around my age have no interest in classical music whatsoever and actually can't even stand listening to it.

That's not to say it'll die out, and I do think Asians seem to have more appreciation for classical music than people in the US, but I assume the long term state will be more like Europe, where classical music competes with lots of other genres for attention but still has some significant fanbase. I mean, Beethoven is freaking Beethoven, some large proportion of human beings will recognize it as great music, period.

Personally, I noticed that classical music is pretty popular in very "upper class" circles regardless of ethnicity, but it quickly gets less popular as you move "down". I assume that stratification will preserve classical music for some time to come despite the proportion of people listening to it being small and shrinking.

Last edited by trigalg693; 09/19/20 10:17 PM.
Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
jeffcat #3027044 09/20/20 07:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by Florestan7
I don't think it's really that helpful to dismiss young people in this way. Look at those who attend the Proms (pre-Covid) or listen to "This Classical Life" on Radio 3 - classical music is not lost on all young people, including myself. However, I do think the world of classical music is seen as dusty and unapproachable - something you need to study to enjoy. There is lots of misunderstanding around classical music, and it's sad to think that people are missing out unnecessarily.

Classical music is not_bad. I agree.

But it has to compete with EVERY-thing else in the world on offer.

This everything else feels better, is easier, and Cheaper. That is the problem if your perspective is, how do we bring classical back with expensive equipment and 1000s of hours of learning.

The general market sells, Video games, Junkfood, Caffeine, Pornography, Narcotics.

as joggerjazz mentioned. We're at the point where to keep someone's attention for 3 minutes to listen to something, we need a high definition softcore pornographic video to go with the song, otherwise no one will even pay attention for 3 minutes.

If this consumer class won't give you 3 minutes to listen to something without softcore porn. classical music = tough sell. Even with Astonova, she stopped trending in days.
There are more young people who enjoy classical music than you think, not in spite of but because of its depth and art. Also, there are many older peoole who dismiss classical music and prefer pop - let's not pin all on the young! But I do agree, classical music (thank god) is not as focused on clicks and likes and superficial fast paced consumerist money making.

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
David-G #3027058 09/20/20 08:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by David-G
Come to London. You will see that classical music is very far from collapse. (At least, before covid took a hand.)
Absolutely.

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
bennevis #3027502 09/21/20 01:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 106
V
Full Member
Online Blank
Full Member
V
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 106
I would like to add the age factor to the obvious class factor. My music voyage through life can be timed as follows : Mummy singing "Voi que sapete". The Philips family gramophone playing the Brandebourg Concertos. Daddy's car radio broadcasting Jacques Brel. My new little 45 rpm electrophone blasting Elvis. More Elvis. Little Richard. Fats Domino. The Beatles. Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen. New York : Bobby Timmons at the Village Vanguard. Bud Powell, Oscar Peterson. Flashback (thank you, Oscar) to Tatum and Fats Waller. Miles and Coltrane. Ouch : roadblock ! Ornette Coleman and Pharaoh Sanders turn me off Jazz. In my thirties now, London. Saint John, Smith Square and the discovery of Baroque. The young Perlman. Glyndebourne. But also the final age of popular melody : Paul Simon, Neil Young, Keith Jarett. Paris : the discovery of Debussy, Saint-Saens (Organ), Rameau (thank you William Christie). Etc.. Etc.. And the final Bach choruses of Matthew's Passion.

Yes, the seeds of classical need to be implanted in your youth, but unless you play music yourself, the real flowering of appreciation will come with age, and that's a good thing in my book. All these young people around you have all the time needed to heed the call, and I'll try and help them.



Steinway "A". Roland LX 706. Viscount Sonus 45 hybrid organ with 165 real pipes. Harpsichord by Marc Fontaine.
Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
trigalg693 #3027575 09/21/20 04:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,479
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,479
Originally Posted by trigalg693
Personally, I noticed that classical music is pretty popular in very "upper class" circles regardless of ethnicity, but it quickly gets less popular as you move "down". I assume that stratification will preserve classical music for some time to come despite the proportion of people listening to it being small and shrinking.

I don't think liking classical music has anything to do with being upper class (in the UK at any rate). It has much more to do with education than class.

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
David-G #3027596 09/21/20 05:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,258
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,258
Originally Posted by David-G
I don't think liking classical music has anything to do with being upper class (in the UK at any rate). It has much more to do with education than class.

I'm using "class" in a sort of "wholistic" sense, e.g. where "new money" is not "upper class". In the US, classical music has high popularity at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, and then drops off quickly as you go to lower tier schools.

I find that among mathematicians and doctors classical music is pretty popular, but not really any other fields. Most computer scientists never listen to classical music in my experience, neither do lawyers or accountants.

In the US at least, among young people classical music is definitely a "snob" and "elitist" activity for "weirdos" and pretentious people (like me). The vast majority of people you see going to concerts are senior citizens.

Last edited by trigalg693; 09/21/20 05:58 PM.
Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
trigalg693 #3027606 09/21/20 06:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 219
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 219
Originally Posted by trigalg693
I'm using "class" in a sort of "wholistic" sense, e.g. where "new money" is not "upper class". In the US, classical music has high popularity at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, and then drops off quickly as you go to lower tier schools.

Originally Posted by trigalg693
... pretentious people (like me).

lol. I see nothing to argue about here.

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
bennevis #3027662 09/21/20 11:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,258
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,258
True story: When I moved to the East Coast, I went to Lincoln Center and NYPS and other classical music events, and I was shocked because it felt like every other person was a Princeton alum. Princeton students really, really like classical music...I had never seen so many young people who liked classical music in my life, at least outside a piano competition.

Last edited by trigalg693; 09/21/20 11:04 PM.
Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
trigalg693 #3027672 09/22/20 01:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,949
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,949
Originally Posted by trigalg693
The vast majority of people you see going to concerts are senior citizens.

That's also true here in Orange County, unless you get one of those hot-shot Asian players like Haochen Zhang or Seong-Jin Cho. Then half the audience will suddenly become Asian, a third of which will have left by intermission because the soloist has already played the concerto. They're not sticking around for the symphony.

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
AZNpiano #3027713 09/22/20 04:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,258
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,258
Oh yea, I totally forgot about that. It's the same in the SF Bay Area, if Yundi Li or Lang Lang or someone like that comes by, the whole place is suddenly filled with middle aged Asian parents and their kids, instead of the usual loyal senior citizens.

If it's someone like Martha Argerich, then my piano teacher would bring all her students, but the parents wouldn't go.

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
bennevis #3027726 09/22/20 05:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,237
S
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,237
I dont think there is any particular reason to believe that older people like more classical music than middle age groups (in percentage of the age group). I dont believe that one suddenly develops a taste for it just because one gets older. The main reason there are more older people going to concerts is in my view largely related to the fact that they have more time available, and also probably more financials (at least for some of them). Middle age people have busy jobs and schedules. Pop and rock concerts address a much larger audience, in which the older people represent a much lesser part, so its normal that there are more younger people. Also many of the pop concerts are not seated, thus less comfortable for older audience.

Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
bennevis #3027812 09/22/20 10:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 106
V
Full Member
Online Blank
Full Member
V
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 106
Opera can be a gateway into the world of classical music. I will restrict my comments to my favourite opera venues, Salzburg and Glyndebourne.

In Salzburg, 95 % of spectators are music lovers, of all ages, and 5 % hangers-on. In Glyndebourne the picture is very different : 1/3 socialite, going because it is the thing to do, like Wimbledon and Ascot. 1/3 business people who know next to nothing about music, but are flattered to be invited as public relations guests of the large British Corporations who sponsor the Festival. 1/3 genuine opera lovers or classical music pros. I am sure that a fair proportion of these socialite types and business execs, none of them elderly, will eventually develop a taste for music, so I am quite encouraged.

However I am certain that classical music is often an acquired taste, coming with experience and therefore age.



Steinway "A". Roland LX 706. Viscount Sonus 45 hybrid organ with 165 real pipes. Harpsichord by Marc Fontaine.
Re: Is the pandemic driving the young to classical music(?)
Vikendios #3027846 09/22/20 12:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,827
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,827
Originally Posted by Vikendios
However I am certain that classical music is often an acquired taste, coming with experience and therefore age.
Maybe it is also genetically programmed, just like liking football or cricket and being good at it (N.B. 'football' = soccer in US, and 'cricket' is not an insect)? whistle

I can't think of any other reason why I'd suddenly change my allegiance from pop (which was all I heard as a kid, until I started piano lessons at ten) to classical, when no-one else in my acquaintance knew of it, let alone heard it, yet which sounded so appealing to my ears the first time I heard it played by my teacher. (She played for me the complete Mozart K545, and I was instantly hooked - on both classical and Wolfie.)

And I couldn't get enough of it from then on, despite then living in a country where the only music a non-pianist could hear easily (other than the indigenous folk) was Western pop. ABBA, Elton, The Carpenters, Simon & Garfunkel, Bee Gees etc were all the rage, and I was singing their music while trying to accompany myself on a friend's guitar. Once I started piano lessons, all that changed......thanks to my wise teacher.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Gospel-Jazz Chord Progression & Scale
by BB666 - 10/30/20 07:33 AM
Guitar Center Mulls Restructuring
by newer player - 10/30/20 12:44 AM
Anthony Hopkins / National Cat Day
by MH1963 - 10/29/20 09:38 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics202,489
Posts3,018,746
Members99,068
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4