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A report from music streaming services (which includes the French online service Deezer) shows a greatly increasing younger following for their classical playlists - among them 'Mood', "Feel Good Classical" (400% increase in a week during the start of lockdown), "Calm Piano", "Classical for Sleep": the under-25s by over 20%. Nearly a third of those streaming classical music are in the age group 18 - 25.

The premise is that the pandemic is encouraging young people to listen to 'more relaxing chilled-out classical playlists to combat anxiety & stress' (the report's words, not mine).

But apparently, even before the pandemic, there was already a rise in classical music streaming among the young in recent years, e.g. 20% increase among the <35s in the past year alone.

Will the trend continue? Will the 'relaxing, chilled-out' Canon in D (without Gigue) go to the Top of the Pops? Will that encourage a sudden surge to seek out more Baroque like the Goldberg (especially as a wonderful new recording by a pianist who cannot be named in PW wink has just been released)? Will those who have been suitably chilled out by "Feel-Good Classical" then go on to explore less chilled-out and more chilling music like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slsi4SBrTV8

And will those who have been calmed down by "Calm Piano" go on to explore stuff like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7S19Ew-fv8

What say you?


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The pandemic is driving the young to Fortnite and NSFW websites.

Classical music is dead. It's never coming back. Think about what music offers the consumer. Then think about the competition.

Selling classical music is like selling tootsie rolls at a cocaine dealership. Everyone agrees tootsie rolls are good, but if the rest of the market is cocaine. well, it's over.

It doesn't mean tootsie rolls are going away, it just means it will mainly be background, while people lace it with cocaine.

Last edited by jeffcat; 09/18/20 07:57 AM.
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I think it's not dead. But it's not mainstream either. And it may be difficult to maintain the level and quality if markets decline. Especially for the big-orchestra pieces if you can't get a filled large hall.

> Think about what music offers the consumer. Then think about the competition.

Classic music has good structure, dynamics, has something interesting to tell (I'm not talking about the words but the story line of the music), interesting harmonies, and you can play it yourself.

Most pop music is boring, repetetive, lacks any structure, and the only thing that tells something is the singer, whose message is usually not that interesting. Other types like house, dance etc are even less interesting.

Unfortunately most people don't seem to listen really for the content, they want to have something as backdrop during their travel, work, etc,

I'm exaggerating a bit but I don't think most competition is that interesting.

If you want to compare with drugs, I would compare classic with designer drugs, rather than tootsie rolls.


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Not to be argumentative she said before typing something distinctly argumentative but, comparing classical music to tootsie rolls might just be the worst comparison I have ever heard.

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Originally Posted by wouter79
I think it's not dead. But it's not mainstream either.

> Think about what music offers the consumer. Then think about the competition.

Most pop music is boring, repetetive, lacks any structure, and the only thing that tells something is the singer, whose message is usually not that interesting. Other types like house, dance etc are even less interesting.

If you want to compare with drugs, I would compare classic with designer drugs, rather than tootsie rolls.

Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Not to be argumentative she said before typing something distinctly argumentative but, comparing classical music to tootsie rolls might just be the worst comparison I have ever heard.

whome

I'm using tootsie rolls vs cocaine as relative metrics. Classical here being tootsie roll, and fortnite and nsfw websites < which compete for our attention/time > is the cocaine.

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As I've never seen, let alone eaten, a Tootsie Roll (- I must have been doing all my shopping in the downmarket supermarkets when I visit the US cry), I had to look it up.

According to Amazon (the fount of all wisdom on planet Earth), the Tootsie Roll offers a perfectly-balanced cocoa taste, lined with a subtle, fruit-flavoured undertone — all incorporated into a delicious treat.

Hmmm, that sounds like classical music all right........ thumb yippie


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Originally Posted by bennevis
According to Amazon (the fount of all wisdom on planet Earth), the Tootsie Roll offers a perfectly-balanced cocoa taste, lined with a subtle, fruit-flavoured undertone — all incorporated into a delicious treat

Ummm... ok, maybe that's a description of an ideal tootsie roll, but in reality.....


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Originally Posted by bennevis
According to Amazon (the fount of all wisdom on planet Earth), the Tootsie Roll offers a perfectly-balanced coca taste, lined with a subtle, fruit-flavoured undertone — all incorporated into a delicious treat.

I've corrected the obvious Amazon misprint to fit in with the fact that apparently Tootsie Rolls are apparently linked to Cocaine.

Both of these things are bad. Tootsie Rolls make one fat, and Cocaine changes one temporarily in to a late 70's game show host. Neither of which conjure up to me Classical Music.

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The quarantine is certainly getting people to experiment with more thing. Like returning to piano.

18-25yrs old is mostly college students and entry level jobs, which would mean potentially less disposable income. Streaming classical music as background music as an alternative to electronic music or even pop music is a relatively simple experiment.

The older population like 25-40yr olds are probably more experimenting with things that require more financial investment like learning an instrument, or wood working, or brewing beer, or whatever other hobby that can be done at home to replace outside activities.

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tootsie rolls look like dog poop


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I've always been a fan of Classical music at a young age. Even growing up with Pop music around including the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Elton John, they were not really part of my life. However, in my younger days I was not into music in a major way besides listening to my father playback his favorite Beethoven & Mozart recordings. My exposure to music was very limited and I didn't really get into it until I was in high school.

Today I still listen to Classical music but increasingly spend more time playing keyboard. Older adults who get into playing an instrument either to keep active or for general interest is becoming common. Owning a portable gadget that plays 1000 songs is 1 thing, learning to play songs on a piano is a different experience. Before the pandemic lockdown in January, I'd practice & play my favorite keyboard pieces regularly. When shops and restaurants were shut, I'd spend more time learning difficult pieces with the free time. When playing music you're listening to yourself as well.

In my family very few people actually claim they're a fan of Classical music. Some learned to play an instrument years ago but did not have positive experiences with music lessons. The association between Classical music & piano lessons makes C music not very enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
tootsie rolls look like dog poop

Literally all brown chocolates look like doggiedoo if you squint a little.

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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Literally all brown chocolates look like doggiedoo if you squint a little.

I sincerely hope that doesn't work the other way around, otherwise one could find oneself with a rather bad taste in one's mouth.

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Originally Posted by jeffcat
The pandemic is driving the young to Fortnite and NSFW websites.

Classical music is dead. It's never coming back. Think about what music offers the consumer. Then think about the competition.

Selling classical music is like selling tootsie rolls at a cocaine dealership. Everyone agrees tootsie rolls are good, but if the rest of the market is cocaine. well, it's over.

It doesn't mean tootsie rolls are going away, it just means it will mainly be background, while people lace it with cocaine.

I don't think it's really that helpful to dismiss young people in this way. Look at those who attend the Proms (pre-Covid) or listen to "This Classical Life" on Radio 3 - classical music is not lost on all young people, including myself. However, I do think the world of classical music is seen as dusty and unapproachable - something you need to study to enjoy. There is lots of misunderstanding around classical music, and it's sad to think that people are missing out unnecessarily.

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They need 10 dancers to get peoples attention these days. Classical and jazz require contemplation. Marketing has no time for that.

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Originally Posted by Florestan7
I don't think it's really that helpful to dismiss young people in this way. Look at those who attend the Proms (pre-Covid) or listen to "This Classical Life" on Radio 3 - classical music is not lost on all young people, including myself. However, I do think the world of classical music is seen as dusty and unapproachable - something you need to study to enjoy. There is lots of misunderstanding around classical music, and it's sad to think that people are missing out unnecessarily.

Classical music is not_bad. I agree.

But it has to compete with EVERY-thing else in the world on offer.

This everything else feels better, is easier, and Cheaper. That is the problem if your perspective is, how do we bring classical back with expensive equipment and 1000s of hours of learning.

The general market sells, Video games, Junkfood, Caffeine, Pornography, Narcotics.

as joggerjazz mentioned. We're at the point where to keep someone's attention for 3 minutes to listen to something, we need a high definition softcore pornographic video to go with the song, otherwise no one will even pay attention for 3 minutes.

If this consumer class won't give you 3 minutes to listen to something without softcore porn. classical music = tough sell. Even with Astonova, she stopped trending in days.

Last edited by jeffcat; 09/19/20 12:45 PM.
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I was going to write something pessimistic, but jeffcat seems to have gotten to it first smile

No, no one is listening to classical music if they didn't already.

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Originally Posted by bennevis
And will those who have been calmed down by "Calm Piano" go on to explore stuff like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7S19Ew-fv8

What say you?

With 7.6 billion people on earth, and with many of the 1.4 billion Chinese fervent about it, classical music is far from dead. Our world population is so huge now (it was 1.9 billiion in 1920), that the music world has become increasingly a collection of niches, of which classical is one. I suspect the absolute number of classical music listeners may actually be higher than it was 100 years ago because our world population is so huge.

ONE STUDY found that 35% of people surveyed (8,000 adults in the US, UK, Mexico, Sweden, Austria, Denmark, Germany, and South Korea) listen to classical music, coming in ahead of R&B and HipHop. One-third of classical listeners are less than 35 years old.

BTW: I've always loved Michelangeli's reading of the Brahms Ballades. Thanks BenNevis for reminding me of it.


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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
tootsie rolls look like dog poop

Literally all brown chocolates look like doggiedoo if you squint a little.

No. Most of the ones I eat are flat squares.

tootsie rolls actually shape like they came out of a dog's rear end!


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Originally Posted by AaronSF
With 7.6 billion people on earth, and with many of the 1.4 billion Chinese fervent about it, classical music is far from dead. Our world population is so huge now (it was 1.9 billiion in 1920), that the music world has become increasingly a collection of niches, of which classical is one. I suspect the absolute number of classical music listeners may actually be higher than it was 100 years ago because our world population is so huge.

ONE STUDY found that 35% of people surveyed (8,000 adults in the US, UK, Mexico, Sweden, Austria, Denmark, Germany, and South Korea) listen to classical music, coming in ahead of R&B and HipHop. One-third of classical listeners are less than 35 years old.

BTW: I've always loved Michelangeli's reading of the Brahms Ballades. Thanks BenNevis for reminding me of it.


I assure you chinese children are NOT fervent about classical music.

In the vast majority, it's something their parents make them do. The parents do it so they can <feel elevated>, having only recently had their general purchasing powers increased. Learning piano, telling other people that your kid is learning piano, that's the primary reason they send their kids to learn piano. It's a Posh move. Like wealthy americans owning horses.

The research you pointed to is also not interpreted correctly.

It says out of 8000 people polled, 35% listened to classical music.

That's the same as 50% wash their hands or 100% take shits. Listening to music in general is not a primary enveloping pastime. Just because they listen to it on their way home from work means little.

Whereas Kids sit down and play 16 hours of Fortnite all on their own, no one has to tell them to do that.

Even asian parents can't beat their kid enough to practice that long.

Classical vs Fortnite, Game over.

Last edited by jeffcat; 09/19/20 03:08 PM.
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