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New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
#3026489 09/18/20 05:34 PM
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Greetings PianoWorld Forum Members,

This is my very first post at this forum. To briefly introduce myself. I was an intermediate pianist, mostly practicing on digital instruments who is trying to come back to piano after a very long hiatus of around 10-12 years - at some point life was simply more important I guess... The last instrument I owned was (and still is) Korg SP-200 stage piano which I hate and love at the same time for the same reasons.
This time I've decided that I have to get the piano which I'm actually able to (mostly) fall in love with. Cut to the chase.
I want to buy an instrument which will allow me to get back to playing the piano and help me with introducing piano to my kids. I want them to have as much realistic piano experience as possible but due to the living conditions I'm unable to go for an acoustic instrument. That being said the choice is obvious - I'm on the market looking for my new digital piano.

After the initial research I almost ended with Kawai KDP110 entry level digital piano. Fortunately I was smart enough to go to the store and check the action on Kawai CN39 piano (which supposed to have even better action than KDP110) and I was totally disappointed with how it feels. It was certainly better than my Korg but still not even close to the acoustic upright piano feel I always wanted to have. So I've started to check different Kawai demo digital pianos which were available at the store. After this test what I know for sure is that I love the sound and the feel of Kawai CA79 (surprisingly I haven't developed the same level of connection with CA99). I have also tested Kawai CA49 which I found acceptable however not great, especially after a side-by-side comparison with CA79. Meanwhile when I was trying to figure out whether I should buy CA49 or wait a while and save additional money for CA79 another instrument came into play, a second hand Yamaha CLP-585 from the original owner who bought this instrument at the store in 2017. Both instruments, new Kawai CA49 and used Yamaha CLP-585, are at the same price of ca $2,400 (USD). I also found Yamaha YDP-184 which costs ca $2,200 which would be another new digital piano to consider within this price range. Kawai CA79 takes the game to the very next level with its current retail price of at least $4,000 which despite I'm in love with this piano I think is a bit too much for a digital piano (please don't grill me for this confession) which will become 'old' in 2 years and worth half of its original price at most.

Could you please share you thoughts on my purchase dilema, especially in regards of buying a second hand digital piano?
Thank you in advance for any input.

Best regards,
James

In short:
Yamaha CLP-585 - $2,400 / USED in a good shape / I can afford it
Kawai CA49 - $2,400 / NEW / I can afford it
Yamaha YDP-184 - $2,200 / NEW / I can afford it
Kawai CA79 - ca $4,000 / NEW / I would have to wait and buy it later

Which one? wink Thank you


Once intermediate, now a beginner again
Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3026539 09/18/20 07:54 PM
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I would take the clip 585. I think that was one their best series, just make sure you get the keyboard and piano inspected.

Otherwise, I think it is great piano, and totally million times better than the other, especially ca49, 184, and I think the speakers are better than ca79.

I think the action was more liked than their clp685 and probably even clp785

Last edited by Jitin; 09/18/20 08:00 PM.

Yamaha P155, Yamaha P515
Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3026645 09/19/20 07:04 AM
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The 585 was THE top-end digital piano at the time (except for hybrids), and the CA49 is not. I wouldn't recommend the 184 as it has a GH3 action, which isn't even the top end plastic action yamaha offers. I cannot say what your preference in action is, but it seems the clp585 has the NWX; I'm not sure if it is the same in the p515, but if it is you can maybe try out the p515. I see that you wan't a furniture piano, which is fine, but keep in mind that you can get a much better piano in a portable formfactor; the p515, for example, seems to offer the same specs (if not better) than the 585. Except for the speaker system, obviously.

Though in the end, see if you can try the clp 585 (and also look for any defects in the used action!). Yamaha's tend to have heavier actions than kawai. And if you are willing to get something portable, kawai's mp11se is also something with a respected action (no built in speakers though). Again the p515, too, and maybe the new es line (but it seems it is heavily focusing on the portability side, not the piano side... for whatever reason). But to reiterate, if the 585 is in good shape, you will be getting top-end build quality, much better than CA49. And time is of the most value for pianos, so I don't think that waiting will yield good results. Unless you can survive with your korg for however long it will take to get a CA79.

Last edited by infermitydood; 09/19/20 07:04 AM.
Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3026651 09/19/20 07:20 AM
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CLP-585!

Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3026680 09/19/20 08:48 AM
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You love the touch and feel of the CA79... put the other reasoning aside and get one. YOLO! (I was in the same boat, no regrets that I raised my budget.)


Musical greetings,

F-Sharp (Kawai CA79 since Sept 2020)
Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3026683 09/19/20 09:18 AM
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I believe the 585 was the first of their actions with the counterweights in the CLP line, which seemed to elicit a fairly strong reaction from players, for or against. I don’t think I ever played one, but have a good amount of hours on a 575 and 535.


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Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
infermitydood #3026873 09/19/20 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by infermitydood
the p515, for example, seems to offer the same specs (if not better) than the 585. Except for the speaker system, obviously.
Not quite true; both offer the NWX keyboard, but the P515 does not have counterweights, while the CLP 585 does. I believe the counterweights make a significant difference in the keyboard's feel--just try the two next to each other if you can and see what I mean.

I also vote for the 585.

Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
PlsDontShootMe #3026892 09/19/20 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by PlsDontShootMe
Originally Posted by infermitydood
the p515, for example, seems to offer the same specs (if not better) than the 585. Except for the speaker system, obviously.
Not quite true; both offer the NWX keyboard, but the P515 does not have counterweights, while the CLP 585 does. I believe the counterweights make a significant difference in the keyboard's feel--just try the two next to each other if you can and see what I mean.

I also vote for the 585.

The P515 will sound better with headphones, but the CLP585 will probably pants all over the P515 viz amplication quality. If you were putting a VST through your chosen board, the CLP585 probably would be better.

I'd buy the P515 and pick up a pair of really good monitors.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3026914 09/19/20 08:34 PM
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@Jitin, @infermitydood, @Pete14, @F-Sharp, @terminaldegree, @PlsDontShootMe, @Doug_M.,

Thank you so much for your valuable opinions and hints. I really appreciate your help.
Myself, I'm also leaning more and more towards CLP-585 however I still can't forget this thrill while playing on Kawai CA79... if it was only a bit cheaper I wouldn't have a second thought for sure.
With a used Yamaha what I'm concerned the most is the fact that a second hand piano might turned out to be a financial trap, especially when dealing with a higher end digital instrument like CLP-585. Any concerns here? Am I able to inspect the instrument well enough to avoid a bitter disappointment in a couple of weeks/months/years? Please remember that I have a limited experience with digital instruments so I can easily imagine that I can overlook some very obvious flaws on used instrument. I will certainly hear if speaker / amplification system has some issue and I'm almost sure that I will be able to catch a sticky keys issue. On the other hand I'm not quite sure if I will be proficient enough with spotting some other issues with piano's action or pedals.

Furthermore today I came across another second hand option from Yamaha offered by the official Yamaha dealer in my area - 1.5yo CLP-645 in polished ebony finish at the same price point as CLP-585. Both use Yamaha's NWX action but I think that CLP-645 doesn't have linear key weights (pls forgive me if I use a wrong terminology to describe it). A huge advantage here is Yamaha's full 5y warranty identical to the one covering a brand new Yamaha Clavinova piano. Furthermore dealer is tempting with a full-price 5y trade-in program allowing me to swap my piano with a better/newer instrument if only I buy it from the very same dealer.
Would you consider CLP-645 over CLP-585 taking all of this into account?

Once again many thanks in advance for all your thoughts, hints and opinions. Happy Sunday!

Best regards,
James


Once intermediate, now a beginner again
Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3026941 09/19/20 09:44 PM
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Maybe. Check the prices paid spreadsheet to see if it’s a good price for that model.


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Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3027004 09/20/20 03:13 AM
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Is the 585 in the same store as the 645? If so, you really need to compare the feel and the sound of the two yourself. I thought I wanted one particular piano just by reading and listening to reviews, but after trying the piano myself, I completely changed my mind. There's no substitute for your own perceptions!

As far as used digital pianos, know that one of the main reasons Yamaha digital pianos are popular is because they are so well made; assuming there are no current glaring problems, your piano should last for many years and even decades. Compared to acoustic pianos, digital pianos have far fewer moving parts, have far simpler mechanisms, and are generally easier and cheaper to repair. You can even repair many problems yourself just by watching a YouTube video or two. If it currently works, you really have little to fear!

A CLP-585 is not very old, so there are unlikely to be problems. However, if you would like to test it out, there are a few things you can do. To test a digital piano, I would try playing every key, at first very lightly and then harder. Sometimes after many years, keys need grease, in which case if the key hasn't been pressed in a few hours, it will significantly resist a very light pressure at first, and then once it's been pressed, it will feel normal for a while.

I would also play (or have someone else play) the piano very loudly over the speakers, to listen for any significant distortion indicating possible amplifier or speaker problems. Listen over a good pair of headphones (maybe bring your own). Finally, play it firmly with all the sound turned off. When some digital pianos get old, the felt strips that cushion the downward and upward movement of the keys can become too compressed, which causes an excessive clunking sound (either on key press or key release). However it usually takes an enormous amount of use before this becomes an issue, and even then the felt strip replacement is not extremely difficult.

If the piano currently sounds nice, and currently feels nice, you should be good to go. Enjoy!!

Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3027043 09/20/20 07:40 AM
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You said it yourself: you were thrilled by th CA79. So get one, when you buy one of the others, after a while you will start thinking... What if...

The price you’ve paid wil be forgotten in a few months when you have an instrument that thrills and inspires you.


Musical greetings,

F-Sharp (Kawai CA79 since Sept 2020)
Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3027045 09/20/20 07:44 AM
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Personally, I would never buy an expensive USED digital piano. I find it too risky.


Musical greetings,

F-Sharp (Kawai CA79 since Sept 2020)
Re: New Kawai CA49/Yamaha YDP-184 vs used Yamaha CLP-585 (2017)
JamesDrake #3027046 09/20/20 07:44 AM
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Stretch your budget a bit and try the the new CLP 745, its a very nice piano !


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