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Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3024684 09/13/20 12:48 PM
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So, summarizing, now Kawai offers 3 ES digital pianos:

ES110: slab version of the KDP110 (but the KDP110 replaced the EX piano patch with the SK-EX and got rid of the oldest Kawai piano patch you can still use on the ES110: "Concert Grand 2" and its variants);
ES520: slab version of the CN29 with the addition of an USB PENDRIVE input;
ES920: slab version of the CN59, but with plastic action and less powerful speakers. However, the 920 adds an arranger and 4 sliders for real-time EQ variations.

The ES520 costs about 120 euros less than the CN29... But actually if you buy an ES520 bundled with stand and triple pedal system, you'll pay much more than a CN29, so I expect the price of the ES520 to drop in the near future. Apart from the people that need portable DPs for gigs, there are people that like more to have slab DPs in their rooms, rather than cabinet-style DPs. But I don't think they would gladly accept to spend more for the slab version rather than for the cabinet-style one...

The ES920 costs much less than a CA59 and its price should drop even more because the competition with the (now with a lower price) Yamaha P515. But the price of a CA59 actually is a little too high IMHO. I remember before the pandemic, the last price of the CA58 was ~2059 euros. Now a CA59 costs 2599 euros!

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Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
magicpiano #3024707 09/13/20 02:54 PM
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The es520 aint a cn29; it has the Responsive Hammer Compact II , not a Responsive Hammer III, which is on the cn29. Unless they changed this RHC2, it is basically the rhc1... but with some third sensor that may or may not matter. It seems that kawai really doesn't want to make their cn and ca line redundant, thus the complete lack of upgrades in actions. Like, come on, the es520 may aswell be a es110 with 'new' technology. Atleast yamaha had the balls to put a wooden action in their p515. These just seem like handicapped versions of their bigger brothers.

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3024720 09/13/20 03:46 PM
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Oh, you are right, so the ES520 is like the CN29 but with a cheaper action and an USB pendrive input. I wonder if the RHIII action is really better than RHC2 and how much...

About the P515, the action is not really a full-length wooden action like the Kawai in the CA series. AFAIK the NWX (white) keys are plastic with a wood core inside. The black keys are plastic inside and outside. And I think it's always a folded action, like the RHIII.

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
infermitydood #3024749 09/13/20 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by infermitydood
the es520 may as well be a es110 with 'new' technology.

That's pretty much what it is. Beyond yet another new compact and lightweight action there's not much else Kawai could add to a piano positioned in between the ES110 and ES920 (although I think we all have our own wish list!). I think we need to hold out on judgment of the RHCII in the ES520 until people try it out and see how different or similar it is in practice versus the ES110. Sometimes small refinements of the action are a better way to go. Additionally most complaints on this forum about the ES110 action probably don't require a completely new action to address, just a little refinement.

Originally Posted by infermitydood
These just seem like handicapped versions of their bigger brothers.

Just like the FP-10 and FP-30 are handicapped versions of the FP-60. Keeping certain components the same reduces costs and usually gives buyers better value. I think its fantastic the ES520 gets the same connectivity, user interface and speakers as the ES920.

Originally Posted by infermitydood
At least yamaha had the balls to put a wooden action in their p515.

Like magicpiano said, its a bit of a stretch to call the NWX a wooden action. The white keys are about 3/4 wood, which might help with the structure of the keys, noise dampening etc. but the rest of it's important moving parts are metal/plastic.

http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthr...h-action-vs-nwgh-action.html#Post2435085

Last edited by 88snowmonkeys; 09/13/20 06:12 PM.
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3024809 09/13/20 09:48 PM
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Many posting in this thread have looked mostly at the ES920. But for me and I suspect many others, the ES520 is the one that commands attention.

Price is the main thing. At this time it'd be challenging to pony up for even the 520, so end of discussion. And weight- I want to schlepp this to gigs, parties, family gatherings, and after hauling a Nord Stage 88 around, 40-41 pounds plus case, recently sold, I vowed never again get a board that was so damn heavy.

So yes, the 520 and not that stay-at-home weighty and pricey beauty with the 4 band eq!

After falling in love with my new ES110 I wanted more. No need for upgrades on the action, it inspires me to play like no other has, so that's all good. But it needed basic upgrades. Aux In! I wrote a separate foretelling thread on that, and look at that, now it has one. BT audio: Big FY! Going from 19 sounds to 34 sounds is helpful, I wish it was twice as many, but still, an upgrade. And that damn 40 watt sound system. That makes me as happy as any of the other upgrades.

My desire here is to show up at a family gathering and have an easy to understand piano that myself and others could play, no external speakers needed, it sounds powerful and rich to those gathered round. Etc.

Now, if only they came out with a 520 with a mic input! The ES530! I think I'll hold out for that model to come out.....

No..... just kidding. I receive my new JBL Eon One Compact this Tuesday- that has a 4 channel mixer with phantom power and BT streaming.JBL EOC SW link

And look at that, I even predicted the ES520, I just called it the ES120 or ES200 in my thread on needed upgrades for the ES110 (very close, right?). I must have felt it in the air, how else to explain how so many of my desired upgrades made it into the final product? Makes you wonder.

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3024823 09/14/20 12:05 AM
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for me- the two questions for Kawai 920-so far it's "improved this and improved that"-but DID THEY GET RID OF THE UGLY MUSIC STAND??? The wiry one that comes with benchtop only? What I saw it I was like "really??" Also, not a word on polyphony. You can "preorder" it, but they do not give much info, not even a vid, but already want my money. Also, I hope they added honky tonk sound to a whole array of sounds-this ultimate piano sound is not in ES8! And they call themselves experts in piano production... I had to "cheat" and play honky tonk through MIDI-why do I have to work that hard after I paid a good money for ES8?


one musical washboard and a kazoo, Sennheiser HD598, Kawai ES8, Casio Privia Px 320
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3024824 09/14/20 12:10 AM
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https://www.kawai-global.com/product/es920/ just looked at sounds-NO HONKY TONK! Not a word on what stand comes with the top only...


one musical washboard and a kazoo, Sennheiser HD598, Kawai ES8, Casio Privia Px 320
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3024832 09/14/20 12:36 AM
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Woo hoo-at the bottom of the description it says that it comes with a transparent music rest! So, just Honky Tonk missing then... I would be curious what did Kawai have to take out to make it 3 kg lighter... Lighter materials? Same trick as with Casio-making black keys lighter? Anybody knows?

Last edited by Siberialina; 09/14/20 12:38 AM. Reason: add

one musical washboard and a kazoo, Sennheiser HD598, Kawai ES8, Casio Privia Px 320
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Siberialina #3024874 09/14/20 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Siberialina
[...]I would be curious what did Kawai have to take out to make it 3 kg lighter...[...]
Well, from the pictures the ES920 looks much more "plasticky" (and dull-looking, IMHO) than the ES8... This should be the answer.

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
magicpiano #3025086 09/14/20 03:22 PM
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I think it is more than 3kg. ES8 has 23kg or so (I think, without the music stand, that is also heavy). ES920 is 18kg? Anyway, ES8 body is made of steel. I guess half of its weight is because of the body. ES920 must be plastic. Being plastic itself is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it is well engineered (which still has to be determined - let's wait for the guinea pigs early adopters to find it out for us. smile ).

Last edited by EVC2017; 09/14/20 03:23 PM.

Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3025245 09/15/20 05:42 AM
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The one think putting me off is the saving of the inbuilt sequencer is that it saved it on to USB with the KSO type!! What is the point of that. Why not the midi file format which then can be used to put into sibelius or other programs.

Does anyone know if you can convert KSO to midi. But to me that is a totally waste why not save in midi file format which everyone uses. I notice the ES920 saves midi files.

that for me puts me off buying this keyboard.

If james is reading this why would Kawai do this a useful feature totally ruined!!! Also why not include a wav file recorder as well. At least that is something Yamaha does not do!!


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3025253 09/15/20 06:37 AM
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You can save a recorded song from the internal memory to the USB pendrive in standard midi file format as well. => Page 65 of the Owner's Manual.
And of course you can save audio files in MP3 or WAV.

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
magicpiano #3025275 09/15/20 08:06 AM
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Not on the es520 you can on the 920!! see page 46



Manual


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3025277 09/15/20 08:09 AM
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Sorry I meant to say on the ES520 . You can save both wave and midi on the ES920 but why not do it on both like other manufacturers do!! It does cost that much and it is £1000 keyboard. I think kawai has made a big mistake with that.!!


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
musicman100 #3025279 09/15/20 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by musicman100
Sorry I meant to say on the ES520 . You can save both wave and midi on the ES920 but why not do it on both like other manufacturers do!! It does cost that much and it is £1000 keyboard. I think kawai has made a big mistake with that.!!

I think that's pure product differentiation. No reason why it's not possible, Kawai just disables some features that it wasn't too save for its more expensive models hoping that some people who need it will be upsold to the higher tier product.

All manufacturers do it, it's just more "noticeable" in some cases with small features that are more "nickel and dime"ish.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3025280 09/15/20 08:22 AM
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It should be illegal to include a feature/tech and then simply disable it for the heck of it, or to differentiate it from more expensive models.

I have an idea for clear and marked differentiation: simply make the more expensive model truly better and there won’t be any need to cripple the cheaper piano!

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Pete14 #3025282 09/15/20 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
It should be illegal to include a feature/tech and then simply disable it for the heck of it, or to differentiate it from more expensive models.

I have an idea for clear and marked differentiation: simply make the more expensive model truly better and there won’t be any need to cripple the cheaper piano!

When it's very obvious (or at least perceived to be) it can insulting to the user. But I'm not really against the practice. You have to take advantage of economies of scale, and forcing manufacturers to be less efficient by requiring different, bespoke components be used in all cases means fewer and more expensive products overall.

Plus, there are always options for more features to be "unlocked" or upgraded via firmware or OTA, and that would preclude any such possibility.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3025285 09/15/20 08:40 AM
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I wonder if what Yamaha did with the CLP-775 is, in a way, something similar to disabling features?

I mean, the 775 seems to me the sweet spot because if you go up for the 785 it becomes very difficult to justify it against the NU1X which costs about the same.

Yamaha does omit some ‘features’ from the 775, but in my opinion these are incidental and sometimes even useless (counterweights in a digital, duh)! So I guess at some point they realized that they should’ve disabled more features for the 775 and decided to outright remove it from the lineup to truly force us up into the 785 (only in the US for some reason).

If I were in the market for a new Clav, I’d go for the 775; but Yamaha is ahead of me and thought it too sweet for Pete. Damn you, Yamaha!

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3025289 09/15/20 08:56 AM
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Yes but the whole of the Yamaha digital keyboard has the same sequencer and wav features from the Psr sx600 to the top model. We are talking about a thousand pound keyboard not a cheap and there are already big differences although i think the prices for both are quite high compared to the competition!!


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Pete14 #3025292 09/15/20 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
It should be illegal to include a feature/tech and then simply disable it for the heck of it, or to differentiate it from more expensive models.
It seems nefarious on first glance but actually makes some sense: reduce consumer prices, speed innovation, reduce lead time, reduce delivery time, and offer environmental benefits.

For example, industrial equipment makers can produce say one adjustable "gizmo" rather than make and warehouse say 200 different models around the world. Simple firmware changes allows the maker to adjust for performance and efficiency (maybe requires changing a few small parts also).

Oscilloscope makes do this too; some are so easy to hack that the makers must be giving a "bonus" to electronics hobbists. Professional labs will not hack the equipment as livelihoods depend on calibrated equipment, pros respect IP, and companies have less price sensitivity than consumers do.

Disclosure - related party works on "gizmos" with such features.

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