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Originally Posted by kamoji
First post! (Long-time lurker)

I had some time with a CLP-745 at a store last week, and I thought I’d share some thoughts. They also had the 635, 645, and other older models for me to compare. Huge caveat: I don’t have much experience with digital pianos. I learned on an upright and also played a baby grand quite a lot. But now I'm in the market for a DP!

THOUGHTS

First: the GrandTouch-S key action on the 745 is way better than the 635 and 645 (GH3X and NWX actions, respectively). The 745 is just much lighter, and to me it's a big improvement. The difference was immediately noticeable, and I’m so glad I tried out this myself. The 635 and 645 were heavier and firmer to press, and the release was also stronger and bounced back harder. I’m far from an expert, but to my untrained fingers the key action on the 745 was far closer to a grand piano. I had read that some people here felt it was almost too light, so I was looking out for this, but I really didn’t think it was too light at all. Maybe that's personal preference, but the 745 is still objectively much lighter than 635/645.

I haven’t tried GrandTouch (non-S) on the higher-end 600 (or 700) series, so I can’t compare GrandTouch vs. GrandTouch-S. But of all the digital pianos in the store, I truly liked the 745 the most and thought it was the closest to a grand (aside from the AvantGrands).

Another significant difference between 645 and 745 was the speaker/sound system. The 745 sounded richer, fuller, and more engrossing at the same volume level (I tried the CFX and Bosendorfer voices). The 645, while good, felt like the sound was more on the surface. Not sure how much of this is purely due to the greater 745 speaker wattage (200 W total, versus 100 W in 645) or the new samplings or some combination of the two.

I don’t really care about the new fortepiano voices (Mozart and Chopin piano sounds). They seem fun, but gimmicky.

PRICING and AVAILABILITY

According to the store workers, there are extremely few 700 series pianos available in the entire country (USA). They said the supplies are critically short, due to COVID-19 messing up the supply and distribution chains. The store had one 745 to purchase (the floor model I tried) and that’s it. They had no idea when more will be available. They were told end of November, but they seriously doubt it. If you pay a deposit, you’re on a priority list when they do start to trickle into the country, but they still don't even know when that will be (they guessed November at the earliest).

Given the scarcity and the fact that no one has any actual pianos to sell to you, they would not budge on pricing. I tried to negotiate, but they wouldn’t move at all.

MY DILEMMA

I’m deciding between the 735 ($2699) and the 745 ($3499). As far as I can tell, the $800 more for the 745 gets you 4 things:

1. Wooden white keys (same keytops, same black keys)
2. Speakers: 735 has 60 W total (2 x 30 W), 745 has 200 W total (2 x (25 W + 25 W))
3. Built-in bluetooth
4. Page holders: plastic in 735, metal in 745

I couldn’t care less about the page holders; the plastic ones (on the 635 in the store) seemed perfectly fine and solid, not flimsy or cheap. Bluetooth is great, but all you have to do is plug a Bluetooth MIDI adaptor ($55 here) into the 735, and you’ve got it. Better speakers are great too, but I’d be using headphones almost all of the time.

So that means the main difference (for me) is the wooden keys. Is that worth $800?! Like I said, they wouldn’t budge on price, and they have no reason to, since there is almost no supply of pianos right now anyway. I tried to compare plastic vs. wood on the 635 (G3HX) and the 645 (NWX), and the difference to me was almost imperceptible. But the wood looks really nice…

Any thoughts? Save $800 for the 735? Or splurge for the 745 to get those 4 things that don’t matter all that much?

Anyone have any luck on negotiating pricing for the 700 series?

Hello my friend, I think that i am going to buy 735, i am between 735 and 745. Tomorrow i will play 745 but i dont know when i will play 735

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Originally Posted by kailord
Interestingly, 745's excess base isn't noticed when you play the demo songs. And I tried to recreate the bass of the demo songs by playing the same voicing along with the demo bass notes, but I couldn't somehow. The notes I played had the heaviness (also, therefore an associated murkiness) that the demo didn't have. If the demo used the same samples, it's funny how it avoided the strong bass, couldn't figure it out. But no matter which voicing and which demo track I tried, all the demos sound good in the bass, but it wasn't reproduceable when i tried. I even tried playing some settings like full lid, half lid, closed lid - closing the lid dampened the sound overall, and helped some, but the treble gets a bit lost. i'm thinking if i have the 745 i'd have to mostly play lid closed to reduce the bass. i think it doesn't have equalizer, couldn't find it on the panel. would have helped - there's some model with an equaliser built in but now i can't find which (3 band)..

For the EQ go to - System - Sound - Brilhance - User

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Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
Hello my friend, I think that i am going to buy 735, i am between 735 and 745. Tomorrow i will play 745 but i dont know when i will play 735

I would have loved to try the 735 too, but unfortunately it seems that they are very hard to come by...

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Originally Posted by kamoji
Yes ideally... But how?? With supplies so short/nonexistent, there isn't any incentive for them to come down on price. It's not like a normal situation where I can just try buying one elsewhere, causing them to miss a sale. They don't even have any pianos to sell!

This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping. Link here if you want to take a look.

Now, granted, it would be $300 off of the price of the CLP-735 ($2,399.99). So it would be the same $800 difference. So I bring this up if you're trying to get closer to that $3,000 mark if that is your top budget. But if you just want lowest price possible and you don't care about the differences, as you mention, then maybe check out the package described above for the CLP-735. Link to the 735 here if you want.

All that said, I do not know when you would receive the instrument. EDIT: Wanted to include that some folks had received their instrument sooner than November, but no guarantees obviously. So if it's something you want ASAP, then go through your local dealer. But, the big takeaways here is free shipping and no tax so you're only paying either $2,399.99 or $3,199.99. And that's it. It's the best online deal I've been able to find and, for me, tax and shipping is at least an additional $700.

Hope this helps!

Last edited by GreatShowmanChopin; 09/14/20 05:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Originally Posted by kamoji
Yes ideally... But how?? With supplies so short/nonexistent, there isn't any incentive for them to come down on price. It's not like a normal situation where I can just try buying one elsewhere, causing them to miss a sale. They don't even have any pianos to sell!

This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping. Link here if you want to take a look.

Now, granted, it would be $300 off of the price of the CLP-735 ($2,399.99). So it would be the same $800 difference. So I bring this up if you're trying to get closer to that $3,000 mark if that is your top budget. But if you just want lowest price possible and you don't care about the differences, as you mention, then maybe check out the package described above for the CLP-735. Link to the 735 here if you want.

All that said, I do not know when you would receive the instrument. EDIT: Wanted to include that some folks had received their instrument sooner than November, but no guarantees obviously. So if it's something you want ASAP, then go through your local dealer. But, the big takeaways here is free shipping and no tax so you're only paying either $2,399.99 or $3,199.99. And that's it. It's the best online deal I've been able to find and, for me, tax and shipping is at least an additional $700.

Hope this helps!

Great info, thanks so much! The prices I got from the store also included shipping and assembly. But they did not include tax! As you point out, the price difference between 735 and 745 (or any other model) would still be the same. But this is definitely something to think about! Thanks!

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Originally Posted by kamoji
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Originally Posted by kamoji
Yes ideally... But how?? With supplies so short/nonexistent, there isn't any incentive for them to come down on price. It's not like a normal situation where I can just try buying one elsewhere, causing them to miss a sale. They don't even have any pianos to sell!

This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping. Link here if you want to take a look.

Now, granted, it would be $300 off of the price of the CLP-735 ($2,399.99). So it would be the same $800 difference. So I bring this up if you're trying to get closer to that $3,000 mark if that is your top budget. But if you just want lowest price possible and you don't care about the differences, as you mention, then maybe check out the package described above for the CLP-735. Link to the 735 here if you want.

All that said, I do not know when you would receive the instrument. EDIT: Wanted to include that some folks had received their instrument sooner than November, but no guarantees obviously. So if it's something you want ASAP, then go through your local dealer. But, the big takeaways here is free shipping and no tax so you're only paying either $2,399.99 or $3,199.99. And that's it. It's the best online deal I've been able to find and, for me, tax and shipping is at least an additional $700.

Hope this helps!

Great info, thanks so much! The prices I got from the store also included shipping and assembly. But they did not include tax! As you point out, the price difference between 735 and 745 (or any other model) would still be the same. But this is definitely something to think about! Thanks!

No problem! Glad you found it helpful! Assembly certainly is nice, but I've watched videos on assembly and it seem fairly straight forward, so I wasn't too disappointed that wasn't included in the package. If you'd like to see for yourself I'll include links below for assembly of both the 735 and 745.

YouTube video of unboxing and assembling the 735

YouTube video of unboxing and assembling the 745

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Originally Posted by kamoji
Any thoughts? Save $800 for the 735? Or splurge for the 745 to get those 4 things that don’t matter all that much?

To me, the speakers and the appearance of the wood keys is worth the cost alone. I get that speakers aren't as important when you're mostly playing with headphones, but I feel like a piano is a great instrument to gather a community around, and when it does happen, I want the audience to be able to appreciate the sound. Also, I find that I need to spend at least some of my practice time playing without headphones, because there is otherwise too much of a shift in how it feels to play when it is time for my next piano lesson with my teacher. I've been banging away on the crummy speakers of the P45 for a long time... I'm ready for an upgrade. smile

I'm sure that the 735's speakers will still be 'good enough,' so at some point, it is a question of luxury, right? Honestly, if the 775 was available in the states, I probably would have gone for that instead of the 745 for the speakers alone, but Yamaha missed getting money from me for whatever reason. smile

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For those who tried the 745 and 785...

After all, the 785 Grandtouch action it's a lot heavier than 745 Grandtouch-S? Or just a bit?
I really liked the 745, but I wouldn't bother if it's just a tad heavier.
It seems that 785 it's in another league, sonically speaking. This is very appealing to me, besides the visual.

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Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping.

1. I’m glad you’re pleased with your purchase (you’ve posted glowingly more than once about it now) but a couple things come up with this enthusiastic review that I wanted to clarify/ask about. If this is being delivered “free” via freight, and you have to return or repair it, I’m assuming you’re out hundreds of dollars in return shipping (or lost account credit) to, where, Utah?

2. If the business doesn’t collect sales tax, you still owe the corresponding use tax instead. Sure, you might not get caught (yet), but pro musicians who claim their gear on their taxes should be careful.

3. Yamaha is allowing dealers to sell upper-level, non P-series/Arius pianos out of their territory now? Typically you have to actually go to the store, in person, to do this. This is not necessarily something that customers need to worry about, it just piqued my curiosity.

4. I still think it’s better to try before you buy, which I’m assuming you didn’t do. Buying on specs or internet hype is not the best way, particularly for non-beginners.


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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping.

1. I’m glad you’re pleased with your purchase (you’ve posted glowingly more than once about it now) but a couple things come up with this enthusiastic review that I wanted to clarify/ask about. If this is being delivered “free” via freight, and you have to return or repair it, I’m assuming you’re out hundreds of dollars in return shipping (or lost account credit) to, where, Utah?

2. If the business doesn’t collect sales tax, you still owe the corresponding use tax instead. Sure, you might not get caught (yet), but pro musicians who claim their gear on their taxes should be careful.

3. Yamaha is allowing dealers to sell upper-level, non P-series/Arius pianos out of their territory now? Typically you have to actually go to the store, in person, to do this. This is not necessarily something that customers need to worry about, it just piqued my curiosity.

4. I still think it’s better to try before you buy, which I’m assuming you didn’t do. Buying on specs or internet hype is not the best way, particularly for non-beginners.

Yeah, that's fair. 1) If it's under warranty it's covered by YAMAHA and I can either take it to a dealer or a technician will come to me. This is per their own warranty. Warranty information here So it can be a local dealer. No need to ship it to Utah.

2) No, it is tax free. I will pay no tax. This is personal/residential use and will not be claimed on taxes. Essentially like buying from Amazon from certain retailers.

3) I'm not sure this is a new thing as Faust Harrison, Kraft Music, Sweetwater, Guitar Center, etc. has done this for years.

4) I 100% agree. However, I had really no interest in any other digital piano on the market and was able to talk to people that actually played the instrument and were able to offer insight into its performance. Again, you are right and I would recommend everyone try before they buy.

I only offered that suggestion as the other poster had already played the 735/745. So most of that wouldn't be a concern.

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Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping.

1. I’m glad you’re pleased with your purchase (you’ve posted glowingly more than once about it now) but a couple things come up with this enthusiastic review that I wanted to clarify/ask about. If this is being delivered “free” via freight, and you have to return or repair it, I’m assuming you’re out hundreds of dollars in return shipping (or lost account credit) to, where, Utah?

2. If the business doesn’t collect sales tax, you still owe the corresponding use tax instead. Sure, you might not get caught (yet), but pro musicians who claim their gear on their taxes should be careful.

3. Yamaha is allowing dealers to sell upper-level, non P-series/Arius pianos out of their territory now? Typically you have to actually go to the store, in person, to do this. This is not necessarily something that customers need to worry about, it just piqued my curiosity.

4. I still think it’s better to try before you buy, which I’m assuming you didn’t do. Buying on specs or internet hype is not the best way, particularly for non-beginners.

Yeah, that's fair. 1) If it's under warranty it's covered by YAMAHA and I can either take it to a dealer or a technician will come to me. This is per their own warranty. Warranty information here So it can be a local dealer. No need to ship it to Utah.

2) No, it is tax free. I will pay no tax. This is personal/residential use and will not be claimed on taxes. Essentially like buying from Amazon from certain retailers.

3) I'm not sure this is a new thing as Faust Harrison, Kraft Music, Sweetwater, Guitar Center, etc. has done this for years.

4) I 100% agree. However, I had really no interest in any other digital piano on the market and was able to talk to people that actually played the instrument and were able to offer insight into its performance. Again, you are right and I would recommend everyone try before they buy.

I only offered that suggestion as the other poster had already played the 735/745. So most of that wouldn't be a concern.

Well, technically you are supposed to pay state sales tax... On your state tax returns every year, you’re supposed to declare and pay taxes on all out-of-state, untaxed purchases. Many people don’t, and they might not get caught. But terminaldegree is right about this.

As for the potential warranty issues, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I’ll look into it!

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No more than $4,500 for 785!

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Originally Posted by sam777
I'll try to repeat the question.

With which keyboard is it better to start learning and training for a beginner adult? CLP 745 or CLP 775. Light or heavy.

DGX 660 owned. Graded Hammer Standard Keyboard. But I don't like the feel of the plastic keys.
As I mentioned earlier, note that the 785 has a lighter key action than the 775 due to its added counterweights. I would therefore only compare the 745 to the 785 (there's roughly a 20% weight difference between the key actions of those 2 - it is noticeable).

It just comes down to your playing style and how heavy (tiring) you want the action to be. Pianists who play for 1-2 hours in a sitting usually prefer less tiring actions.

Last edited by Burkie; 09/14/20 08:48 PM.

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Originally Posted by Otavio
For those who tried the 745 and 785...

After all, the 785 Grandtouch action is it a lot heavier than 745 Grandtouch-S? Or just a bit?

It seems that 785 it's in another league, sonically speaking. This is very appealing to me, besides the visual.
745 is approximately 20% lighter than the 785. And for comparison, the 745 is roughly 30% lighter than the 775.

And yes, the 785 is a beautiful piece of furniture. On the same day I purchased my 745 my friend purchased the 785.

Both are a credit to Yamaha.

Osoreirimasu!

Last edited by Burkie; 09/14/20 08:58 PM.

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So the takeaway is that the CLP 785 isn't safe for playing for 1 - 2 hours straight? If I play a heavier action slowly then increasing the speed over time gradually, will that be safer for someone's fingers?


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Originally Posted by kamoji
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping.

1. I’m glad you’re pleased with your purchase (you’ve posted glowingly more than once about it now) but a couple things come up with this enthusiastic review that I wanted to clarify/ask about. If this is being delivered “free” via freight, and you have to return or repair it, I’m assuming you’re out hundreds of dollars in return shipping (or lost account credit) to, where, Utah?

2. If the business doesn’t collect sales tax, you still owe the corresponding use tax instead. Sure, you might not get caught (yet), but pro musicians who claim their gear on their taxes should be careful.

3. Yamaha is allowing dealers to sell upper-level, non P-series/Arius pianos out of their territory now? Typically you have to actually go to the store, in person, to do this. This is not necessarily something that customers need to worry about, it just piqued my curiosity.

4. I still think it’s better to try before you buy, which I’m assuming you didn’t do. Buying on specs or internet hype is not the best way, particularly for non-beginners.

Yeah, that's fair. 1) If it's under warranty it's covered by YAMAHA and I can either take it to a dealer or a technician will come to me. This is per their own warranty. Warranty information here So it can be a local dealer. No need to ship it to Utah.

2) No, it is tax free. I will pay no tax. This is personal/residential use and will not be claimed on taxes. Essentially like buying from Amazon from certain retailers.

3) I'm not sure this is a new thing as Faust Harrison, Kraft Music, Sweetwater, Guitar Center, etc. has done this for years.

4) I 100% agree. However, I had really no interest in any other digital piano on the market and was able to talk to people that actually played the instrument and were able to offer insight into its performance. Again, you are right and I would recommend everyone try before they buy.

I only offered that suggestion as the other poster had already played the 735/745. So most of that wouldn't be a concern.

Well, technically you are supposed to pay state sales tax... On your state tax returns every year, you’re supposed to declare and pay taxes on all out-of-state, untaxed purchases. Many people don’t, and they might not get caught. But terminaldegree is right about this.

As for the potential warranty issues, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I’ll look into it!

I stand corrected. I've been doing this for years unknowingly. So...I'll take another roll of the dice, it seems! Alternative, the seller could be paying the sales tax. So maybe that's the situation?

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Originally Posted by YuriPiano
So the takeaway is that the CLP 785 isn't safe for playing for 1 - 2 hours straight? If I play a heavier action slowly then increasing the speed over time gradually, will that be safer for someone's fingers?
It's 'safe' for adults.
Safety and tiring are two different things.

For children I wouldn't risk it though - with children your goal is to enchant and inspire them to want to play. Tiring them out physically (in addition to tiring them mentally) is counterproductive.

If you want a stair-climber exercise machine for fingers there are better and cheaper options.

Last edited by Burkie; 09/14/20 09:14 PM.

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Originally Posted by kamoji
THOUGHTS

First: the GrandTouch-S key action on the 745 is way better than the 635 and 645 (GH3X and NWX actions, respectively). The 745 is just much lighter, and to me it's a big improvement. The difference was immediately noticeable, and I’m so glad I tried out this myself. The 635 and 645 were heavier and firmer to press, and the release was also stronger and bounced back harder. I’m far from an expert, but to my untrained fingers the key action on the 745 was far closer to a grand piano. I had read that some people here felt it was almost too light, so I was looking out for this, but I really didn’t think it was too light at all. Maybe that's personal preference, but the 745 is still objectively much lighter than 635/645.

I haven’t tried GrandTouch (non-S) on the higher-end 600 (or 700) series, so I can’t compare GrandTouch vs. GrandTouch-S. But of all the digital pianos in the store, I truly liked the 745 the most and thought it was the closest to a grand (aside from the AvantGrands).

Another significant difference between 645 and 745 was the speaker/sound system. The 745 sounded richer, fuller, and more engrossing at the same volume level (I tried the CFX and Bosendorfer voices). The 645, while good, felt like the sound was more on the surface. Not sure how much of this is purely due to the greater 745 speaker wattage (200 W total, versus 100 W in 645) or the new samplings or some combination of the two.

I don’t really care about the new fortepiano voices (Mozart and Chopin piano sounds). They seem fun, but gimmicky.
This is very much in line with my review in my earlier post. When I tried both the 745 and 775, the 745 instantly reminded me of my N1X, which has a true grand action.


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Originally Posted by Burkie
If concert pianists find lighter actions perfectly suitable for nuanced expression then I can't see why anyone would willingly choose to instead opt for a heavy action?

The distinction I was making is that children have weaker muscles in their hands, so that already makes all actions feel heavier. Additionally, adults have a choice as to what action they inflict upon themselves - most children are not the ones making the purchasing decision, so parents must be mindful of these facts.

Therefore I am not suggesting you purchase any more pianos than you need to - that need is entirely independent to the choice of key action.
As a kid we had an acoustic upright Petroff whose keyboard was very heavy. It did not stop me from exercising. So, speaking from my personal experience I do not agree with you.

At the moment I own a CLP-575 whose action and speakers I honestly hate - I do not argue it’s heavy but in the same time it is inconvenient for playing because it does not resemble an acoustic at all. Given the price I paid for it and the fact it was a ‘higher-end’ piano back in the day, I would stay away from any new Clavinova and would not consider them instruments for practice for an intermediate player. Beginners are quite well served by much cheaper options like the P-141 and the likes.

To all of you who measure the pianos like a sum of grams, wooden/plastic keys, power of the speakers and available sounds - you are all wrong. A piano is more about the connection of all of these “parameters”. It’s about the soul of the instrument. I am highly amused that all of a sudden there is a new much better sampling of the CFX. The acoustic CFX hasn’t changed for 3 years and neither has the sampling technology. Unless I am wrong, the Clavinovas are sampled at 44 or 48KHz/16 bit. An Untrained ear wouldn’t make the difference from 44/16 and 192/32. I guess the different sounds are produced because of a different processor and digital effects.

The only digital I’ve been impressed so far in my life was the NU1. Still, It did not feel like an acoustic because in an acoustic the hammers hit strings and in NU1 they hit sensors but apart from that it’s a very good instrument. I haven’t had the chance to play the Avantgrands but given their outrageous price I am not interested to.

Of course, I’ve tried some of the modern acoustics, too, at Frankfurter Musikmesse. The only upright that made me happy was the highest-end Petroff (selling price €16 000) - but you buy it once in a lifetime. With digitals, they always get“improved”, as players we are always not quite happy and waiting for the next generation.

The best solution would be to have one of those concert grands at home - even the baby grands are better than the Clavinova. Yes, I do live in a house but the shape of my living-room does not allow me to accommodate even a baby grand.

Last edited by TrollToddington; 09/14/20 10:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by TrollToddington
Originally Posted by Burkie
If concert pianists find lighter actions perfectly suitable for nuanced expression then I can't see why anyone would willingly choose to instead opt for a heavy action?

The distinction I was making is that children have weaker muscles in their hands, so that already makes all actions feel heavier. Additionally, adults have a choice as to what action they inflict upon themselves - most children are not the ones making the purchasing decision, so parents must be mindful of these facts.

Therefore I am not suggesting you purchase any more pianos than you need to - that need is entirely independent to the choice of key action.
As a kid we had an acoustic upright Petroff whose keyboard was very heavy. It did not stop me from exercising. So, speaking from my personal experience I do not agree with you.
Where did I state a heavy action would 'stop' you from exercising?!

I simply pointed out the fact that a heavier action tires you out more than a lighter action. And given that most children (under 10) have smaller hands/fingers/muscles than adults - that means heavier actions effect them much more than they effect adults.

Originally Posted by TrollToddington
The best solution would be to have one of those concert grands at home - even the baby grands are better than the Clavinova.
See, it turns out that actually you do agree with me smile

Last edited by Burkie; 09/14/20 11:19 PM.

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