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Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
PlayerkaN #3024251 09/12/20 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
Originally Posted by Burkie
P.S. minor issues worth noting with the CLP-745 (and CLP-775):
1. Whilst the ivory keys are rock solid, the ebony keys have a fair amount of lateral side-to-side wobble.
2. The Mozart fortepiano is not tuned correctly (it's tuned to A440 instead of about A421 - out by almost 1 semitone). Likewise the Chopin fortepiano tuning may also be sightly out. I believe you can adjust this tuning manually.
did you play the piano clp 735?
I'm sure they will feel much the same - the main differences are:
1. The keys (745 uses solid wood, the 735 uses plastic).
2. The Bluetooth Audio and MIDI (the 745 has them, the 735 doesn't).
3. The speakers (the 745 has greater ranges of breadth and volume) - though through headphones they should sound identical.


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Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
kailord #3024257 09/12/20 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kailord
hi fellow singaporean dad, only difference is my kid's almost 6.
interesting that your measurements puts 745 a little heavier than CA79. i only gauged with fingers. wonder how much it's got to do with the weight required for initial movement, then the follow through? i guessed 745 to be lighter than CA79 which is marginally lighter than acoustics. i was gunning for 785 but realised it's heavy weight - which means if 745 weighs 62-45g, 785 must be almost 70 !

did u use coins? thought of doing so but don't know the weight of coins yet.
any negatives u know about CA79 besides the hiss reports?
I used professional brass piano-regulation key weights for the first 70 grams, then 20 cent pieces for additional weight.

I measured the CLP-785 in addition to the 775 and 745.

It's worth commending Yamaha on reducing the weight down from that of the 685, however the 785 is still too heavy for children. It's ok for adults (the counterweights make it slightly lighter than the 775), but I cannot recommend it for children under 10.

As for the CA79 - the only negative is that the CA99 cabinet looks far more beautiful smile. I'll probably end up buying a second-hand CA99 for the next upgrade!

Last edited by Burkie; 09/12/20 10:14 AM.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
Burkey #3024265 09/12/20 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
I measured the CLP-785 in addition to the 775 and 745.

As for the CA79 - the only negative is that the CA99 cabinet looks far more beautiful smile. I'll probably end up buying a second-hand CA99 for the next upgrade!

do u have a benchmark comparison with some acoustic grands/uprights?
i'm surprised ur measurements show 745 is slightly heavier than CA79, i guessed it was the reverse.
and how much heavier is the 785 from 745?

do watch out for the CA99 excessive bass. it's rather obvious when u feel the cabinet vibrate.

Last edited by kailord; 09/12/20 10:27 AM.
Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
Burkey #3024273 09/12/20 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
Originally Posted by Burkie
P.S. minor issues worth noting with the CLP-745 (and CLP-775):
1. Whilst the ivory keys are rock solid, the ebony keys have a fair amount of lateral side-to-side wobble.
2. The Mozart fortepiano is not tuned correctly (it's tuned to A440 instead of about A421 - out by almost 1 semitone). Likewise the Chopin fortepiano tuning may also be sightly out. I believe you can adjust this tuning manually.
did you play the piano clp 735?
I'm sure they will feel much the same - the main differences are:
1. The keys (745 uses solid wood, the 735 uses plastic).
2. The Bluetooth Audio and MIDI (the 745 has them, the 735 doesn't).
3. The speakers (the 745 has greater ranges of breadth and volume) - though through headphones they should sound identical.


I gonna buy 735 price quality is good, i feel p515 very heavy regarding a yamaha acoustic piano

Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
kailord #3024281 09/12/20 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kailord
do u have a benchmark comparison with some acoustic grands/uprights?
i'm surprised ur measurements show 745 is slightly heavier than CA79, i guessed it was the reverse.
and how much heavier is the 785 from 745?

do watch out for the CA99 excessive bass. it's rather obvious when u feel the cabinet vibrate.
My C.Bechstein Academy 124 upright was 54 grams at A0 down to 58 grams at C8. Note that top grand pianos are lighter than uprights and, interestingly, more evenly weighted.

E.g. 49g/50g at A0 down to 45g/46g at C8. I believe both Steinway and Fazioli have that weighting. Hence why I point out the Kawai CA79 as being the closest to perfect for a digital.

Finally please note that acoustics are measured with the dampers off (pedal down) - i.e. the keys do feel heavier without the pedal engaged.

Last edited by Burkie; 09/12/20 11:11 AM.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
Burkey #3024287 09/12/20 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
Note that top grand pianos are lighter than uprights and, interestingly, more evenly weighted.

E.g. 49g/50g at A0 down to 45g/46g at C8. I believe both Steinway and Fazioli have that weighting. Hence why I point out the Kawai CA79 as being the closest to perfect for a digital.

Finally please note that acoustics are measured with the dampers off (pedal down) - i.e. the keys do feel heavier without the pedal engaged.

i still don't get the comparison with dampers off - shouldn't we compare just the actual key weight when not pedaling? it's still relevant info, no?

and the interesting point here then is - acoustics change weight with pedaling, whereas DPs don't. so this is one more difference DPs haven't managed to bridge?

your objective and mine seems to be the same - getting children trained. and i was pretty impressed that DPs have matched acoustics sufficiently such that models like 745-785 & CA79 potentially can take someone up to grade 8. but for the sake of exams, which aren't conducted with high-end grands, we'd need to actually try to match the touch of "exam pianos" then. would u still say 745 / CA79 key weight is suitable, or somewhere in between this and 785 weight?

Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
kailord #3024290 09/12/20 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by kailord
Originally Posted by Burkie
Note that top grand pianos are lighter than uprights and, interestingly, more evenly weighted.

E.g. 49g/50g at A0 down to 45g/46g at C8. I believe both Steinway and Fazioli have that weighting. Hence why I point out the Kawai CA79 as being the closest to perfect for a digital.

Finally please note that acoustics are measured with the dampers off (pedal down) - i.e. the keys do feel heavier without the pedal engaged.

i still don't get the comparison with dampers off - shouldn't we compare just the actual key weight when not pedaling? it's still relevant info, no?

and the interesting point here then is - acoustics change weight with pedaling, whereas DPs don't. so this is one more difference DPs haven't managed to bridge?

your objective and mine seems to be the same - getting children trained. and i was pretty impressed that DPs have matched acoustics sufficiently such that models like 745-785 & CA79 potentially can take someone up to grade 8. but for the sake of exams, which aren't conducted with high-end grands, we'd need to actually try to match the touch of "exam pianos" then. would u still say 745 / CA79 key weight is suitable, or somewhere in between this and 785 weight?
Firstly, I would rather say the goal must be to have children 'enchanted' - rather than 'trained'!
Exams actually inhibit learning. Plenty of evidence for that.
I believe Lang Lang's teacher mentioned that he told Lang Lang to minimize performances so that he could spend more time learning new techniques in preference to perfecting limited repertoire. Exams limit your repertoire and knowledge. I was forced to do my classical exams until 8th grade - I only started actually loving the piano fully after that stress ended. I would never abuse a child by forcing them to do exam exams.

As for key weight being different with and without damper - that is a flaw inherent to acoustics. Fixed in digitals.

Last edited by Burkie; 09/12/20 11:32 AM.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
Burkey #3024292 09/12/20 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by kailord
do u have a benchmark comparison with some acoustic grands/uprights?
i'm surprised ur measurements show 745 is slightly heavier than CA79, i guessed it was the reverse.
and how much heavier is the 785 from 745?

do watch out for the CA99 excessive bass. it's rather obvious when u feel the cabinet vibrate.
My C.Bechstein Academy 124 upright was 54 grams at A0 down to 58 grams at C8. Note that top grand pianos are lighter than uprights and, interestingly, more evenly weighted.

E.g. 49g/50g at A0 down to 45g/46g at C8. I believe both Steinway and Fazioli have that weighting. Hence why I point out the Kawai CA79 as being the closest to perfect for a digital.

Finally please note that acoustics are measured with the dampers off (pedal down) - i.e. the keys do feel heavier without the pedal engaged.

Hi Burkie,

Please sorry for the offtopic but I am really curious, is there any reason why you would chose a digital over the C bechstein 124 academy? I have my eyes on thet instrument, and I wonder if you get the right sound, or it s a letoff and one could prefer the full sound of a digital?

Thanks!!


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Criticism is welcomed since it helps improving and going forward!

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Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
tudor33sud #3024297 09/12/20 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tudor33sud
Hi Burkie,

Please sorry for the offtopic but I am really curious, is there any reason why you would chose a digital over the C bechstein 124 academy? I have my eyes on thet instrument, and I wonder if you get the right sound, or it s a letoff and one could prefer the full sound of a digital?

Thanks!!
The key regulation (weight gradation) on that A124 hand-made in Germany instrument was amazing. That is one department that all digitals below the N1X are inferior to acoustics.

The main reason I had to sell it was my wife has sensitive ears (like Mozart did) and can't handle loud noise. The acoustic pianos of today are very loud compared with the fortepianos of yester year.

So unless/until we buy two separate houses, it's digital from here on in for me.

Last edited by Burkie; 09/12/20 11:47 AM.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
9190 #3024299 09/12/20 11:51 AM
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Tried 745, loved the action.
In the beginning I was felling too light but after playing a bit, I really liked.

Ahh, another interesting experiment...
Layering different pianos with fortepianos(with lower volume)...
It improved a bit the realism, gave some upright feel.

Unfortunately I will not be able to try the 785 before buy....

Some say that sound experience it's totally different.

Last edited by Otavio; 09/12/20 11:59 AM.
Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
Burkey #3024325 09/12/20 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
In the end our top 5 choices (also constrained by a USD $7,300 maximum budget) came down to:

1. Roland LX706
2. Casio GP-310
3. Yamaha CLP-745
4. Yamaha CLP-775
5. Kawai CA79
Given that budget you can even get the NV5 unless you are looking for a grand-like action.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1X
Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
9190 #3024333 09/12/20 01:03 PM
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Everything tells me that I think that yamaha with the 735/45 has done a good deed

Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
9190 #3024359 09/12/20 02:31 PM
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Anyone tested vsts with Clp 700 internal speakers?!

Maybe the new speaker positioning could improve external audio playback too.

Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
Beowulf #3024462 09/12/20 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Beowulf
Originally Posted by Burkie
In the end our top 5 choices (also constrained by a USD $7,300 maximum budget) came down to:

1. Roland LX706
2. Casio GP-310
3. Yamaha CLP-745
4. Yamaha CLP-775
5. Kawai CA79
Given that budget you can even get the NV5 unless you are looking for a grand-like action.
I believe the quote I received for the NV5 actually exceeded by budget (SGD $10,000 - USD $7,300).

I.e. here the Yamaha N1X is cheaper than the NV5 lol thanks to cartel Robert Piano!

Last edited by Burkie; 09/12/20 07:33 PM.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
Beowulf #3024467 09/12/20 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
In the end our top 5 choices (also constrained by a USD $7,300 maximum budget) came down to:

1. Roland LX706
2. Casio GP-310
3. Yamaha CLP-745
4. Yamaha CLP-775
5. Kawai CA79

Forgot to ask, did u assess KDP-110?

My impression was it was slightly lighter than CA78 but they didn't have a CA79 side by side for me to compare. And comments in forum are CA79 is slightly lighter than CA78 so 78 might be similar to 110.

But I was thinking one way to 'enchant' my trainees is by investing more in a more realistic, grander sound, with also more child-engaging features such as different voicings. I remember as a kid being more enchanted with my yamaha electone than a single-voiced budget upright. That poor upright lasted me till grade 7, one less than yourself, and similarly I stopped cos I hated 'it' in general. Now I want to retrain with my kids, and am also enchanted myself by these modern tools.

So going by that, KDP-110 would be less interesting due to unimpressive bass output (smaller speakers), slightly poorer treble output, and fewer enchanting sounds. The other extreme is blowing budget, but my upper limit is also same as yours.

Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
Burkey #3024524 09/13/20 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
[quote=kailord]. It's ok for adults (the counterweights make it slightly lighter than the 775), but I cannot recommend it for children under 10.
So, what would you do if you had 2 children - one aged 8 and one aged 11? You would have 2 digitals at home?

Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
Burkey #3024537 09/13/20 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
I believe the quote I received for the NV5 actually exceeded by budget (SGD $10,000 - USD $7,300).

I.e. here the Yamaha N1X is cheaper than the NV5 lol thanks to cartel Robert Piano!
What was the price they gave you? They quoted me SGD14,500 for the NV10 when I was there to try out the CA99 but I didn't ask for the NV5 at that time.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1X
Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
TrollToddington #3024577 09/13/20 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TrollToddington
Originally Posted by Burkie
[quote=kailord]. It's ok for adults (the counterweights make it slightly lighter than the 775), but I cannot recommend it for children under 10.
So, what would you do if you had 2 children - one aged 8 and one aged 11? You would have 2 digitals at home?
If concert pianists find lighter actions perfectly suitable for nuanced expression then I can't see why anyone would willingly choose to instead opt for a heavy action?

The distinction I was making is that children have weaker muscles in their hands, so that already makes all actions feel heavier. Additionally, adults have a choice as to what action they inflict upon themselves - most children are not the ones making the purchasing decision, so parents must be mindful of these facts.

Therefore I am not suggesting you purchase any more pianos than you need to - that need is entirely independent to the choice of key action.

Last edited by Burkie; 09/13/20 06:04 AM.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
9190 #3024760 09/13/20 06:43 PM
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I have no idea what kind of insight this video can provide, but this is supposedly the CLP 745 key action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74_XByepfr0

Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series
9190 #3024815 09/13/20 11:13 PM
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With which keyboard is it better to start learning and training for a beginner adult? CLP 745 or CLP 775. Light or heavy.

DGX 660 owned. Graded Hammer Standard Keyboard. But I don't like the feel of the plastic keys.

Last edited by sam777; 09/13/20 11:21 PM.
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