Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos

So this begs the question: if the action of the new ES920/520 are pretty close to or maybe identical to the ES-8, how would you describe the difference between the ES110 and the ES8?

I'm relatively new to the ES110 and have been thrilled with the action. "Pianistic" for me refers to the best acoustic piano playing experiences I've had, where I command, fly, gracefully land, leap... you get the idea. A level of expressiveness that I haven't experienced with other DPs. I also like the 'light touch' (to me it just seems right). So what is better/different compelling about the ES8 action compared to the ES110?

I read user reviews on SW for the MP11SE, and their rave reviews about it being a real instrument and the joy of playing it- I guess that's the bench mark, if you're able to shleep 75 pounds and can shell out $2,799. Negativo for me, so having a keyboard with at least as good an action as the ES110, more and improved sounds, and kick ass built-in speakers, that would be worth saving pennies for.

I also notice the ES110 has the Responsive Hammer Compact action and the ES520 has the Mark II of that.

And, I just checked out SW: "Sorry, the Kawai ES8 88-key Digital Piano with Speakers - Gloss Black is no longer available."

The RHCII in the ES520 will probably have a very similar feel to the ES110 but with a few improvements. The RHCII is also in the KDP-110 and I've read it is more refined (less noise and bounce when the key rebounds), although perhaps it is a little heavier. Of course Kawai could have implemented this action slightly differently in the ES520 compared to the KDP110. It also has a triple sensor which makes it possible to repeat notes without silencing them (without the pedal). But the basic geometry of both actions are the same.

The RHIII in the ES8 and ES920 has counter weights, let off simulation, and a slightly longer pivot length so theoretically it should feel more like an acoustic piano, but in the end its all about personal preference. Many people seem to really like the lightweight RHC.

My goodness, thanks for such a comparative, detailed description. I'm going to have to memorize parts of what you wrote, the language of piano actions is one I care to cultivate! There is the poetic, floral wine-sniffing equivocations, and then there's the nerd-out of all the technical details, what everything is called, and how it works.

I've never noticed any particular noise and bounce from the keys. Cool, so a small upgrade from the ES110 action. Didn't think it needed upgrading.

I'm really wondering about let off simulation / escapement, ever since I heard one person describe it as the space AFTER you've pushed down, and in that relaxed portion of the key travel, there's no upward pressure, so you literally don't have to make as much constant, continual effort, like you would if a spring was pushing the key back up. But perhaps it's not so much the effort needed, but the fact that you don't automatically have to 'hold the key together', or 'take care of the key', or 'be strong for the key' (whatever, it's sounds funny to me).

Yeah, I'd love to try the ES8 and the MP11SE. If I'm already happy with the ES110, anything more would be gravy. Once 'pianistic' joy and satisfaction is found with a keyboard, it opens the world to you, gives you a voice-

I am happy to help. But be careful about memorizing what I write! lol I am far from an expert, there are many people here in this forum more knowledgeable than myself!

Just want to clarify that digital pianos can't perfectly replicate let off/escapement (unless its a true grand piano action like the Kawai NV10). Most digitals just simulate the bump that you feel part way down when you press the key. At this point on an acoustic piano the hammer is released and you can hold down the key without too much effort. But in a digital there is no hammer being released, you still need to exert force to hold down the key which is holding up a metal weight on a lever. However the counterweights that exist in the RHIII (and a few other actions) will contribute some force and make holding down the key easier. Check out a few digital piano reviews on pianodreamers if you want to read about some of the basics of digital piano actions (and of course there are many great threads here on pianoworld!). But don't let the technical stuff override the music because in the end what matters is how the keys feel under your fingers, and it seems like you are very satisfied with your ES110!

Very official prices at my local very official Kawai dealer:
- ES920 1799€
- HM-5 stand 149€

The ES8 was around 1300€ ("reduced from 1600€") when they still advertised it.

You guys, I just figured it out, the ES920 is not the successor for the ES-8 but rather a new entry into the lineup. Kawai simply needs more time for the ES-9 to be completed. It will be glorious, the ES-9!

I have to tell myself this story every night before I go to sleep or else I stay up pacing back and forth; asking ‘why, Kawai, why? (Please, do not spoil it for me with all your objectivity and such).

I thought you'd just think of the Yamaha P-515 and fall asleep with a smile on your face.

I’ve tried that, and it helps; but the trauma is so severe that my mind just won’t let go until I tell the story I told (I have to be very convincing or else my mind knows I’m tricking it).


Sometimes I even sing myself a lullaby:

Twinkle, twinkle, little Pete,
For I have a little treat,
ES-9 is coming soon,
Wait and see but please don’t peek.

Pete14, I thought you were happy with your P-515? And, possibly, in the market for a new Clavinova? So... what's with your obsession with a product you never seemed to care for in the first place? Why not just be happy with your P-515, and/or keep on looking for some other fish in the sea? Because, you know... there are other fish in the sea!

Sometimes you just have to let go, Pete14. Sometimes you just have to let gooo...

Mickey, you don’t understand; I am sick (obsessed), and at this point it doesn’t even matter if I’m in the market for a new digital. Every time a ‘major’ product is rumored, my anxiety kicks in: is this it? Is this the one with alien tech so advanced that not even 100 years of solitude will render it obsolete? Is this the one capable of shape/color shifting at my command? Today it’s a purple slab, tomorrow it’s a black and shiny baby-like grand?

For you see, before I met this place, I was at peace with whatever was available. heck, I only upgraded when my piano broke (seriously). Now, several pivot threads later, I’m never satisfied; not even when I’m perfectly happy with my P-515 (a contradiction, it seems, but that’s how bad it can get).

“No”, I say. “I can’t be happy; Gombessa says there’s something newer out there with longer pivots, longer samples, real this, real that”.

You still have time, Mickey, but it’s too late for Pete; he is stuck at the hotel PianoWorld forever, and perhaps not even alien tech could save him!




P.S.

“Welcome to the hotel PianoWorld,
Such a lovely place, such a lovely place,
Plenty of stuff at the hotel PianoWorld,
Any type of gear, you can find it here”!

I fell for that chant, and now I’m stuck forever at the hotel PianoWorld!

After the long wait for the ES920 release, I'm now waiting for video reviews and demos and reviews in the likes of Keyboard Magazine that aren't just a reprint of the Kawai press release or a list of features. Stu Harrison at Merriam Music makes especially good demo videos covering features which also include honest impressions of the instrument.

Unless the length of the pivot is really too short, it's all ok. It's not the length of the pivot to be important, it's how you use it!

Well, I agree they make good videos to get an idea of how these beasts sound, but they will never tell you they are disappointed for something in a digital piano. They have to sell ALL of them, even the most horrible thing they have in their stock!

In his review/overview of the ES8, Stu Harrison acknowledged there were some sounds that he felt were "a bit of a poor effort." And in his comparison of the ES8 and P515, he makes a very interesting demonstration of the difference in the actions, particularly the weight required to press the keys. At 24:51 he uses an iPhone to make an eye-opening comparison of the weight-sensitivity of the actions.

Yes, his store sells both, but he wants his customers to be aware of the advantages and disadvantages of each.

I'd also say Stu has been fairly critical/frank about his feelings on the NV10.

Yes, I remember he made a face of disappointment when he tried the Rock Piano patch of a Kawai DP (I think it was an ES110 compared with an FP-30 or a P125). Well, he is a guy that sometimes isn't able to hide his personal opinions, even if it's a seller (but objectively that Rock Piano patch was really horrible sounding!)...

The flagship piano sound and action are 99% of what matters on a digital piano whose function is to be a piano used in a home for playing piano repertoire. If I prefer piano A to piano B on those two features, the remaining sounds of piano A can be complete garbage and I still would prefer piano A for piano repertoire.

Of course, it was just to say that often Mr. Harrison is not able to hide his sincere opinions, rather than describing just the positive aspects while hiding the negative ones (like most of the others sellers do on youtube).