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Hi,
I have read often that pianos are among the hard instruments to record.
I have budget only for a 50s,60s upright.

I already have a Focusrite interface with two Mic slots... I imagine myself letting the up-wood open and positioning two mics there... Not expensive mics, probably two behringers start line or similar. And recording many versions and changing positions and testing. The room is not treated but at least is not small full of reverb like my home studio, it's large.

What you think would be my chances of achieving good recordings?
Good enough for me to feel pleased by using it to show compositions. I dont dislike imperfect piano recordings - to a certain extent - I dont need to sound extremely regular and soft.

Do you know examples of people that recorded on similar conditions?
I'm with a perception that even when using a VST the quality of the keys matter much, but the price of a nice digital piano would be similar to of an old upright, and my work is of... Romantic pieces, intended to be recorded later with like a flute, clarinet, cello arrangement - for this kind of music I guess people dont use often piano VSTs do they?

After this period I could record on a Studio, but the truth is that I really like most being able of doing everything at home.


Thanks.

Recording is easy, just press record on your phone / laptop

It gets hard when you want a good recording.

Then you have to define what good is and it quickly becomes very difficult.

But basically, you need good sound first. This involves having a good piano, a acoustically reasonable room and a place in the room where the sound is good.

>I have budget only for a 50s,60s upright.

a 70 year old upright is not a good start unless it has been completely restored. But I think uprights are rarely worth that kind of investment.

But it all depends on your definition of 'good'

I have a Petrof 125 of 70s upright piano and using an iphone 6s and its default recording app without any external microphone. I put many many music sheets on the top cover of the piano and put the iphone on the music sheets. I have recorded Bach, Schubert and Liszt, for me the result is excellent if there is no background noises.
In the beginning, I tried to put it on one extreme of the keyboard, but the vibration makes a lot of noise. I believe the key of a success recording is to reduce the vibrations.
I don't know how to upload...

BTW I'm recording a completely restored grotrian 189 grand. I found it after searching a long time. I did a bit of room treatment but nothing spectacular. I'm using DPA4060 mics which are highly linear in response from 20-20kHz. I think that's essential for sounding 'good'. These mics were the cheapest in this class (around $900 a pair I think). Again your definition of good may differ.

And to put this in perspective, a cheaper mic but same piano would still sound pretty good, a cheaper piano would probably not.


some sample recordings here
http://recitals.pianoworld.com/reportRecitalsbyPerformer.php?name=wouter79

A well tuned and voiced good sounding piano is the key here.

As for the Behringer mics here is an example:

https://youtu.be/nTyyKvP4sLA

Take the bottom panel off and point the microphones at the harp and strings in the middle of the piano. That way the mics get good access to the soundboard and strings but you don’t get all the action noise. Only thing you have to be careful of is a squeaky or clunky pedal mechanism.

This is how I record my upright.

Or alternatively walk around your piano room while someone else is playing until you find the place where your piano sound best and then put your mic(s) there. It will sound different to more closely positioned mics so see which effect you prefer.

Perhaps not a good example? At least I didn't like the recording at all but that I think is more likely to be the tone of that particular piano (possibly a bit of distortion from high recording levels as well?) rather than the Behringer mics. themselves.

Very, very nice. There's a lot of care gone into these I think.

In my limited experience, it’s mostly a matter of taking the time to experiment with many different mic positions/placements and having a good sounding piano to begin with. Also, dealing with room noises, since mics can be brutally honest...

This.

Digital recording technology has improved a great deal, and it's not that difficult to get a clean recording (e.g., without the "whir" sound of background buzz etc.)

But if you're not starting with a good instrument, all bets are off.

To the OP, without know your location, it's hard to know the actual dollar amount you mean by "budget only for a 50s,60s upright" but it seems to me that you should spend most of your money, and all of your effort, to get the very best piano you can. Then start working on the other details like the mics, the room etc.

Also, depending on your goals, you don't necessarily have to rule out a digital piano, but again, it all comes down to budget.

Good luck!

Recording piano is different than recording piano-sounding electronic devices. A device can be connected straight to a computer and one could just as easily “record” that device “playing” back a digital performance that was keyed in, edited, and enhanced. So what’s the point in that?

But recording a live human performance on a live acoustic instrument can have real meaning. Even a budget piano from the 50s will have its charm and the recording provide memorable human emotions.

As mentioned above, number one is get that piano tuned.

Yes I agree, a recording on an acoustic is very preferable over a DP, even if it's an medium quality upright. You get the extra sound from the room, performer, real silence (instead of electronic noise) etc that make it sound real.

Thanks. Yes I even posted recordings here with several mic positions to get feedback on that. But once you have it all figured, the setup is done pretty quick. A good piano and keeping it in shape is the main factor

You said I have budget only for a 50s,60s upright. I take it that you have not yet bought your acoustic piano? Your interest to record is good but we have in the UK a centuries old saying:
'You cannot make a silk purse from a pig's ear'.
So first be satisfied that you have bought a piano that can produce the sound quality you want before investing in any recording equipment.
Ian

I've always had difficulty getting a satisfying recording from an upright, instead managing some common trade-offs when the piano is placed normally in a room, up against a wall.

The Behringer recording is rough to me. The bass is small and distant. The treble is strong and present, but the status of that upright's tone and tuning makes it hard to determine much. It's not even, so I feel less of the dynamics.

I like WTM's recordings, and it certainly helps being on a C.Bechstein. The treble and mid is very good. The bass is present and fairly balanced with the other registers, however, there is a muddled or boxy tone that I believe is one of those trade-offs I've experienced before in recording (and not in the piano's tone).

I've recorded from above with lid open, or with the top panel removed or with the bottom panel removed. All have limitations and trade-offs.

I've heard a few close mic'd consoles that had nice tone and balance, from small diaphragm mics but struggled with lower frequencies and wider dynamics.

I had some excellent luck that I've occasionally been able to reproduce recording from behind an upright that was in an open room. I did need something to divide the mics...in my case, I used another upright, but small shields designed to produce a stereo effect should work. I used a mid-mic technique placed about 5'-6' away from the back of the upright. It had trade-offs, too, but was the best method I've found yet to get balance between the registers and wide dynamic range in a raw recording.

I can say that I have gotten objectively better line-level recordings from a digital with a reasonably good sample than I've ever managed from an upright. As far as the subjective character of a live recording on an upright, well, I have some I love and some I look at with rose-colored glasses.

Also, I use affordable mics. I have a couple sets, all under $400. A recording device with good pre-amps seems very important. Mine still isn't expensive, but if I was to upgrade my equipment, that would be next, not my mics.