2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Spring Into Sound Sale
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
34 members (EB5AGV, doctor S, clothearednincompo, BlakeOR, ejlamas, Beowulf, Artdealer718, CaseyVancouver, 8 invisible), 399 guests, and 508 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 46 47
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 993
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 993
Originally Posted by Pete14
“Shill” for Yamaha? I’m constantly beating Yamaha up.

What is your claim?

That ES920 RHIII is better or worse than P515 NWX? That ES920 HI-XL is better or worse than P515 CFX? That ES920 Onkyo speaker system is better or worse than P515 speaker system?

Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 36
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 36
1555 for the Ee920 at Gear4Music ES920
1299 for the MP7-SE MP7-SE

The 256 difference gets you a reasonable set of monitors. I know I mentioned this in the other thread, but I'm just not sure I see the value at the price point.

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,325
S
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,325
Kudos to the Piano N - nice job!

Greg

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,986
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,986
Originally Posted by navindra
Originally Posted by Pete14
“Shill” for Yamaha? I’m constantly beating Yamaha up.

What is your claim?

That ES920 RHIII is better or worse than P515 NWX? That ES920 HI-XL is better or worse than P515 CFX? That ES920 Onkyo speaker system is better or worse than P515 speaker system?

My biggest beef is with the sound engine; this is one spec that is truly important, and will make a significant difference.

For Kawai to bypass their much better sound engine and stick an aging engine into the ES-920 is akin to taking Kurzweil’s award-winnng sound engine (based on the so-called triple-strike samples) from the 80s, pairing it with a grand piano action and expecting great results. Granted, Kawai’s engine is not from the 80s, but the point is that a ‘good’ action can only go so far if the engine is simply not equipped for a higher level of complexity.

The action makes the engine and the engine makes the action. It’s a two part equation. And yes, a sound engine can be objectively deconstructed: more/longer samples= better; modeling= way better; newer/faster processors= better; more mic perspectives= better; experience accumulated by years of programming= better, etc..
(I see the ‘engine’ as an accumulation of all of the above; technically, ‘the samples’ are not the engine, but the engine has to render them, etc.....)

The action is more of a personal thing, I guess, but I do feel that wood not only looks better but also feels better (I know, some people can’t tell or care for a difference; hence, personal).

Lastly, I truly do feel that the weight reduction for the ES-920 is a reference on the build quality (cheaper), and not something Kawai set out to do to make the ES-920 more portable. When one thinks portability, one thinks MP7 and not ES-8\ES-920 (yes, this is just my opinion).



P.S.

There is not an ounce of sarcasm above.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,587
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,587
Originally Posted by Doug M.
The improvements in sound clarity might be more significant than most of the other updates.[...]
They never say exactly what is improved in the samples (if really they are improved), if they improved all the notes or just some of them, etc... And why not make a comparison between the sound from the "old" samples and the new "improved" ones? That could convince some undecided/picky users to make the purchase. Personally I fail to spot differences from the audio demos/videos/reviews of the new and the old model, even in the similar cases of CA58 vs CA59, CN37 vs CN39, etc...

Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 10
K
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
K
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Pete14
My biggest beef is with the sound engine; this is one spec that is truly important, and will make a significant difference.

Harmonic Imaging XL still sounds excellent and holds its own against other brands’ newer offerings. If you’re upset that Kawai isn’t offering their newest flagship Novus sound engine for sub 2k products, where are your posts regarding the Yamaha P515 not having Yamaha’s CLP Grand Expression Modeling? But you have no problem with that and keep promoting the P515. If not a Yamaha shill, then you’re a biased fanboy

Joined: May 2020
Posts: 53
8
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
8
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by navindra
That ES920 RHIII is better or worse than P515 NWX? That ES920 HI-XL is better or worse than P515 CFX? That ES920 Onkyo speaker system is better or worse than P515 speaker system?

In the end these are the questions that matter because despite all the criticism, the ES920 is offering improvements (albeit small ones) over the ES8 at what will likely be the same price. We can quibble about the looks and the weight savings vs metal case trade-off till the cows come home, but in every other objective sense the ES920 is an improvement over the ES8.

Its also perfectly reasonable to want more and expect a brand new model released 5 years after the ES8 to push the envelope and overtake the P-515. Of course that means different things to different people. As someone who would really like an integrated USB/Audio interface, the absence of that feature disappoints me. The lack of wooden keys may disappoint other people. But for the majority of customers interested in this product what matters most is how the action feels and how it connects to the sound coming out of the speakers. And until we try it none of us can make a judgment on that front.

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,986
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,986
You are mistaken, Keys98 (I feel that ‘Keys88’ sounds more catchy; was that already taken?)

At the time the P-515 was released, Yamaha gave it the best/newest sound engine available; this is the exact sound engine used in the 600 series. The new engine with GEM was just recently released, so there’s no way Yamaha can go back in time to use it for the P-515 (time travel might be possible, but I don’t think Yamaha has achieved that level of advancement).

P.S.

Some mild sarcasm used above, but still, I meant what I said. grin

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 7
J
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 7
ES920: New Features & Improvements (compared to ES8)

- IMPROVED: Responsive Hammer III keyboard action with redesigned key switches

Technical guff, designed to sound like the action is a substantially improved, when we know it will all but play the same.🤨

- IMPROVED: Improved acoustic piano sounds and updated Virtual Technician parameters

On paper looks virtually identical to the es8, again no real substance that will be heard unless you have the ears of a 🦇

- IMPROVED: Enhanced Touch Curve setting with 10 selectable touch presets

I'm sure most digital piano have settings for touch and enhanced to a degree so the average Joe will notice? 😕

- NEW: Electric Piano, Drawbar and Jazz Organ, Electric Bass, Harpsichord, and Strings sounds

Not impressed with 6 new sounds, my casio ctk has 500😁

- NEW: Motherboard developed in partnership with Onkyo for improved tonal clarity

Partnership sounds like marketing hype, let onkyo send a engineer to the headquarters for a brainstorm and then add Onkyo to the spec sheet, looks good for kawai, and a few quid for the association for Onkyo which believe it or not aren't very highly rated in the world of hifi/Pro audio👎

- NEW: Updated control panel with 4-band EQ faders and modern OLED graphic display

OLED been available since 2008, just 12 years late👍

- NEW: Support for latest PianoRemote control app for iOS/Android

Who cares? 🤔

- NEW: Bluetooth MIDI and Audio functionality with aptX support for wireless audio play back

Most CHEAP Pianos have this, again old hat😴

- NEW: Stylish rounded case design and lightweight chassis weighing 17 kg

Metal es8 looks way more durable and of substantially better quality👍

- NEW: Modern HM-5 designer stand and F-302 triple pedal bar, support for GFP-3 triple pedal unit

😒

Kawai Es8 £1100 kawai Es920 £1500

No comment 🤐

Last edited by Jdjboz; 09/09/20 02:27 PM.
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 358
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 358
Well, what other portable piano, except P515, has audio interface built-in? By 'portable' I mean slab digital piano. Heck, even with 'professional' stage pianos you only get it with flagship models (not in Nord). It's much easier for Yamaha than for other manufacturers to put it inside since they own Steinberg.

I will wait with my opinion about new casing until I try it in a shop and actually touch it. On pictures I like ES8 looks much more. It had something special, the premium feeling which I haven't experienced with any other slab digital. The vertical 'wall' behind keybed with 'Kawai' looks soo classy. Featurewise ES920 is an improvement. ES8 needed better speakers, some BT connectivity and now it's there.


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,349
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,349
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Well, what other portable piano, except P515, has audio interface built-in? By 'portable' I mean slab digital piano. Heck, even with 'professional' stage pianos you only get it with flagship models (not in Nord). It's much easier for Yamaha than for other manufacturers to put it inside since they own Steinberg.

I will wait with my opinion about new casing until I try it in a shop and actually touch it. On pictures I like ES8 looks much more. It had something special, the premium feeling which I haven't experienced with any other slab digital. The vertical 'wall' behind keybed with 'Kawai' looks soo classy. Featurewise ES920 is an improvement. ES8 needed better speakers, some BT connectivity and now it's there.

Well, there's the Yamaha P-125, P-121, Roland RD-2000, I think a few Dexibells as well... I do think this should become a standard feature. Are manufacturers really still scared of people capturing digital copies of their samples?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,125
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,125
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Well, what other portable piano, except P515, has audio interface built-in? By 'portable' I mean slab digital piano. Heck, even with 'professional' stage pianos you only get it with flagship models (not in Nord). It's much easier for Yamaha than for other manufacturers to put it inside since they own Steinberg.

I will wait with my opinion about new casing until I try it in a shop and actually touch it. On pictures I like ES8 looks much more. It had something special, the premium feeling which I haven't experienced with any other slab digital. The vertical 'wall' behind keybed with 'Kawai' looks soo classy. Featurewise ES920 is an improvement. ES8 needed better speakers, some BT connectivity and now it's there.

I initially admired the idea of embedded audio interface until I started buying a digital mixer! Then I realized that they are useless for performance and studio recording.

S/PDIF or ADAT is what an instrument should have. Just like Genos. Most professional interfaces/mixers support these two and there is no reason to have one in a stage piano.

The modularity of having a standard optical output will last forever. It probably will never gets outdated and can be used with almost every pro gear I can think of.

This is somthing I'd love to see in the next iteration of MP series!

Last edited by Abdol; 09/09/20 02:41 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 53
8
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
8
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Well, what other portable piano, except P515, has audio interface built-in?

Well, there's the Yamaha P-125, P-121, Roland RD-2000, I think a few Dexibells as well... I do think this should become a standard feature. Are manufacturers really still scared of people capturing digital copies of their samples?

The RD-88 too. Plenty of people use VSTs and DAWs at home and on stage. Having a built-in audio interface makes setting this up so much easier.

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,986
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,986
How dare you show up in here with all this negativity, Jdjboz?

I shall give thee one Bannon for this behavior; do not force me into giving thee two Bannons! laugh

Henceforth, thou shall take a knee when referring to Kawai’s new offerings and ask for forgiveness from thy lord upon which one Bannon will be removed. wink

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,125
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,125
Originally Posted by Pete14
How dare you show up in here with all this negativity, Jdjboz?

I shall give thee one Bannon for this behavior; do not force me into giving thee two Bannons! laugh

Henceforth, thou shall take a knee when referring to Kawai’s new offerings and ask for forgiveness from thy lord upon which one Bannon will be removed. wink

Let us know what you've been smoking as well. Seems to be a really good stuff. It is legal here in Canada.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,986
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,986
laugh

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,646
U
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,646
Originally Posted by Abdol
Let us know what you've been smoking as well. Seems to be a really good stuff. It is legal here in Canada.

It's not the weed Abdol, he actually is like this. 😛

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 21
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by Svennig
1555 for the Ee920 at Gear4Music ES920
1299 for the MP7-SE MP7-SE

The 256 difference gets you a reasonable set of monitors. I know I mentioned this in the other thread, but I'm just not sure I see the value at the price point.
I fully agree with you. Unless I’m able to buy this for 1300€ something I’d rather spend more and buy a CA or a CLP, or spend less and buy an older/different product. It’s like that middle ground without any real advantage that doesn’t make much sense. Price on these has to go down to 1200-1300 to make sense and eventually after the initial launch hype it will.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 459
O
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 459
ES920: Am I right in calculating a 6kg weight saving vs FP-90, and 5kg weight saving vs the P515 (approx)?

Provided everything else adds up for a prospective buyer (sound, action, functionality)... it could well make more sense RE portability/gigging...

...for which purpose, a larger Kawai logo is required at the back (just to rub the haters' faces in it at gigs).

I suggest a free sticker in the box, for those who want to do that. 😈


Learning to play. Consciously incompetent, which apparently is a good starting point. smirk
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 490
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by OscarRamsey
ES920: Am I right in calculating a 6kg weight saving vs FP-90, and 5kg weight saving vs the P515 (approx)?

Yep! That's quite a lot, isn't it?

(Of course, depending on its size, an extra sticker could reduce the weight saving massively. So be careful what you wish for. :-))


at home: Kawai MP11SE; Yamaha LG800; Yamaha HS7; Ultimate MS-100B; Sennheiser HD558 | office: MP7SE; K&M 18820; Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro

Adult beginner
Hugh Sung, Popular Piano course (in progress)
Page 4 of 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 46 47

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Should I buy this Hazelton Bros Piano?
by siniarch - 04/14/21 01:29 AM
Not sure which piano to buy need some help.
by Artdealer718 - 04/14/21 01:21 AM
Appraising a piano?
by jsilva - 04/13/21 09:18 PM
Bleeding edge synth tech c.1980 for Rush
by newer player - 04/13/21 08:36 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,270
Posts3,082,137
Members101,182
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5