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It is important now to ask him why he is lying to his teacher. This seems one of the root causes.

It is evident to me why a young man would not be honest with a teacher: he was playing difficult music without permission and was afraid of rejection. We all are. There just needs to be open communication so that your son is developing the skills he needs and feels comfortable with discussing the music he wants to play. He does need to understand that he will sometimes hear ‘not yet’, but his teacher can help him prepare for what he wants.

It’s great that there seems to be better communication now without ‘secret’ music. I’m so pleased that things are on s better track—- and I hope it continues. I would advise you continue to attend his lessons and encourage your son to communicate. It is not easy for any of us to express our needs and to be ready for negative feedback... and particularly not easy for a vulnerable, non-adult.

This is really exciting!

I don't think it's at all unusual for a kid student (of any age) not to tell his piano teacher what he's attempting to learn by himself.

Well, if that's unusual, I (and most of my fellow students in our early teens) was also unusual, and I don't think I'm unusual. Just amazing.

The difference is that I never considered what I was attempting to play on my own as "practice": I thought of it as my own 'fun time', my recreational time, which I indulged in my own free time away from practicing, for doing what I wanted purely for my own pleasure - and without interference from well-meaning (but uncomprehending) adults, and with no thought of it 'contributing' to my learning.

What was I attempting to learn by myself? Yep, mostly stuff that was far too hard for me then - including the Revolutionary Etude and Heroic Polonaise. (I was enamoured of anything bombastic, frenetic, loud, and, er, heroic, just like most teenage boys are ).

Just like me reading boys' adventure stories by Captain W.E. Johns (about WW1 & WW2 flying aces in their Camels and Spitfires) in my early teens was purely for my own pleasure, and didn't contribute to my learning of English (which I started at nine, with the Western alphabet), and certainly not English Literature (for which Shakespeare, William Wordsworth, D.H.Lawrence and Thomas Hardy beckoned), and of course I never told my English teacher at school about it. Not because I was afraid of her opinion of my taste in literature, but because it was none of her business what I chose to read in my own spare time.

However, I did love classical music and playing the piano, and understood that I needed to learn things in the appropriate way, step by step - and I was also doing annual graded piano exams which required exactly that - so I was perfectly happy to learn 'properly' from my teacher, while also doing my own thing - in my own spare time - on the side. Therefore, a win-win situation.

How would that apply to the OP's son? If he can understand that there are technical and musical skills that he needs to acquire over a period of time to be able to play advanced pieces properly, and is prepared to have help from his teacher to get there, that would be the ideal situation (as it seems he's not interested in learning what his teacher thinks is suitable). Is the teacher able to convey that and willing to get on his side?

When all's said and done, learning piano is not essential to one's prospects in life - just like playing team sports, in fact........which was why I avoided them completely as a teenager (OK, I was hopeless at kicking/catching/throwing balls of any sort) - and never felt deprived as a result ever since .

Chocks away, Ginger! 😎

Is it actually those pieces, or arrangements of them? OP mentioned "the book" and I would think one book that has all of those actually has easy arrangements.

Several of my students have that book. All originals, no arrangements.

I have used it a few times in the past as supplements, but I can't imagine teaching out of it exclusively. It's not meant to be pedagogical in nature.

I believe this is exactly him. When the teacher said he was half way through Evolutionary and that he would play it in the next recital, he was speechless. I felt that so much of negativity was released from him. So when she asked him about Barcarolle, he was much more confident. He played the song smoothly but as you can guess, with not perfect tempo. They started working on that song. She asked him to count, and he followed in a way I feel way more willingly than before.

Thank you <3

I agreed, but I was conflicting myself when I didn't ask him to spend the required practice time on the teacher's songs. And that led him to think a teacher is no longer neccessary.
Do you think enrolling in exams is good for an average student? When his current teacher suggested he take exams, I did some search. It seems in the US the majority of students do not take exams. So in the end, my son and I agreed that it might be too much pressure. But because he was asking to stop lessons, I was talking to him into taking a "terminal" exam (i.e. the highest level exam, not a college degree) and then he could stop. I am not serious on that exam idea. I didn't really mean he had to pass the exam, but I thought it would be a good way to keep him with piano. He is quite successful with other things outside of piano, and I was hoping once he set the target for passing that exam (even only to stop playing piano after that), he would try to accomplish it.

By the way, I found a lot of myself in your sharing in the reading part

Luis
I hope you keep us posted on your son’s progress.... and, with his permission, post a recording of Revolutionary Etude and/or Barcarolle when polished 😊

He practiced the songs in the book just because he had to "fill out" the 30 minutes practice time we agreed upon.

In the first meeting we had with the teacher, I told her I had no music knowledge at all. She said that might be better, because it's not uncommon for some parents with some knowledge in piano to try to teach a teacher how to teach. So I was hesitant to talk to the teacher and things got worse and worse.

I will (I hope he will agree, because he likes Revolutionary Etude a lot)! I'm more than excited to see him polishing the pieces with the teacher!

Seriously? How about the old idiom of "you can't run before you can walk"
If your son picks up bodybuilding, would you be letting him squat 500lbs when he doesn't have the proper technique to squat 50lbs?


That's why he enjoys his own picks. Picking your own random thing to fill out that 30 minute "quota" is just avoiding an assignment when you don't want to actually do the work. Even more so when there's no requirement or deliverable for your own picks. Plus those picks can stroke your ego into thinking you're better than you actually are.

It would be more telling if he has actually shown any interest in continuing to practice the pieces he picked to actually get them up to par. Has your son actually shown interest in practicing the pieces he's "done" with like Blumenlied? Can he play any of those pieces from memory before he considered them "done"? Will he still be interested in Revolutionary Etude if he needs to practice it for 6 months?

If he is the sort of kid who's not accustomed to failure at anything, exams could be the way forward to get him to focus on a specific goal, and practicing his pieces properly, rather than just 'having a go' at stuff he likes that's beyond him, and only that stuff, not caring how badly he's playing them. There's nothing like exams (probably RCM if you're in the US) to find out where your deficiencies are - you can't hide your technical or musical problems with them, unlike in student recitals.

You are right in that in the US, very few students do exams, but it seems his teacher knows all about them, which very few in the US actually do (- and it's next to impossible for a student to do well in them if his teacher has no experience and no idea what's required).

As for me, I was brought up on them, and knew nothing different - all my fellow music students did the same exams, if they were learning musical instruments, as did all my teachers when they were students. And I expect my own students to do them too - which isn't difficult in the UK, as it's expected of all music students (certainly kids, though many adults do them too).

It took me more than six months to learn that when I was in high school. But by then I was playing several advanced pieces simultaneously plus a concerto on top of that. And I was practicing a lot more than 30 minutes a day.

Interestingly, none of my piano students like the piece. I've attempted to teach it once, but the girl's hands were too small for the chords.

The problem with us is that he could still manage to finish all those songs, fluently, at the original speed, maybe with lots of issues from a professional's view but completely out of my knowledge.

He always tries to play all the notes correctly and until he can play at the required speed. If he knows he has a mistake, he will correct it. But his knowledge of piano is still very limited. So as you saw, a piece was "finished" to him might be nothing close to finish from your point of view. I hope once his teacher gets involved, she will be able to help him fix the issues.

No except for Bach's Gavotte that I saw him playing many times just "for fun" (I think that's the most musical piece he plays so far). What I do is to occationally ask him to play a piece for me. A piece he likes the most, a piece he hates the most, a piece he might have forgotten the most, or name a specific song. He will play. (But I don't ask too often, otherwise he would think I'm tricking him into practicing!!)

Yes, that's the reason he was overconfident. Once he can get the fingers to work, he almost immediately memorizes (and also forgets fast as well, maybe due to too little practicing).

One time he spent 4 months on Canon in D with the previous teacher and no issues. He never stops in the middle of a piece. But for an overly difficult piece, I'm not sure. Today he told me he almost finished 2 pages, but his left hand, for the first time, was tiring. So I'm not sure how things will look like when he continues.

He has no passion for piano despite making good progress. I has hope that he will appreciate and feel music better when he can play more musically. Or as many of you mentioned, when he hears the teacher plays.

His teacher is originally from China where I believe taking exams is also a norm. So I guess she should know them inside out. I will keep this option in mind. Thank you!!!

The teacher hasn't started working on this piece with him, so what she said might be to encourage him more than actually think he only needs a couple of weeks. But whatever, I'm very happy that the teacher now knows about the situation and is helping. I might be too excited too early, but, why not, right, when everyone is happy.

Hi,

I just want to give some updates...

My son still has online lessons through Facetime. He didn't ask to stop anymore, maybe because he likes the pieces (recently they work on The Entertainer). He still practices 30 minutes a day, of which about 10 minutes on old pieces and 20 minutes on current pieces. He hadn't made much progress on the Revolutionary etude, still about 3 pages done, but he still practices a little each day. He said it might take several more months.

This is how he plays
Barcarolle and
Turkish March His teacher said he could practice those pieces on his own to make sure he could play consistently with no mistakes.

Thank you all again!

I really liked how your son play those pieces.
For me this teacher is teaching the most important part of the classic music. For this part, online teaching will at least lose 40% of efficiency compared to face to face.
The part I am surprised is that your son is not enjoying play although he has found the music, he is very frustrated.

Thank you! I really look forward to the days his teacher will resume in-person teaching! I'm always curious why she could hear him playing through Facetime because, from our side, her piano sound is quite distorted.
I'm not sure about him being frustrated. But it's true that the piano practice time might be his least favorite time period of the day. I've always hoped that once he can play better, he will love playing the piano more.