2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
46 members (1200s, clothearednincompo, akse0435, busa, Doug M., 36251, Davidnewmind, Dfrankjazz, brdwyguy, 6 invisible), 1,180 guests, and 260 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,157
Beemer Offline OP
Bronze Subscriber
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Bronze Subscriber
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,157
This is a 'how long is a piece of string' question. I don't use a dehumidifier as Scotland is not Florida. That said, as one who abhors out of tune choirs, I often wonder if I should let a sudden change in the weather pass before another fine tuning? Is there a rule of thumb concerning whether to tune or not if the weather suddenly changes? e.g. do nothing until x days have past during the weather change? Perhaps my asking RPT professionals is unfair as I realise that you have regular commitments regardless of short term weather changes.
Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 7,145
P
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 7,145
Ian,

I believe you tune your own, so I would think touching up the unisons would be relatively easy for you. For the average person, it would take several days to a week of consistent same direction humidity change for it to get objectionable for most. Rain one day, then clear and dry the next is little to worry about. However heavy playing in conjunction with humidity change definitely can accelerate the process.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,854
D
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,854
Just to say... I find my dehumidifier invaluable. I am in London - I am not sure that Scotland is so different.

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,685
G
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,685
An additional thought:
Temperature usually always moves simultaneous with relative humidity and temperature changes can have an almost immediate effect on the tuning.


x-rpt
retired ptg member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,157
Beemer Offline OP
Bronze Subscriber
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Bronze Subscriber
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,157
I do touch up weekly and its not a chore for me. I was just curious from a technical viewpoint how quick the soundboard absorbs and releases moisture. As I recall reading, it takes much longer to release moisture.
Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 335
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 335
As far as I know (I read a technical paper on the subject by a Swiss scholar), a piano soundboard which is rather thick compared to a harpsichord or a guitar, will take ages to really dry up to the point where cracks may appear, and only in conditions of relative humidity below 25 %. It is telling to read how all piano manufacturers claim they age their timbers for years before use. But I may be an optimist. I think the danger is in well insulated big city appartments that are overheated in the winter, and people living in Arizona. It also depends on how many other humidity absorbing elements (furniture, books) are present in your room.

I do use a humidifier during the central heating season.

Last edited by Vikendios; 09/07/20 07:27 AM.

Life is a smorgasbord, and I want to taste everything.
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 480
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 480
I think it depends on the piano and the player.

For instance, I tune a Steinway M at a school. Prior to this they had a Steinway L. The L wasn’t in great shape but the tuning pins, bridge, and soundboard were fine. No issues tuning it. But it was exposed to large humidity shifts and went out of tune in a short time. Then they got a used M to replace the L. That piano stays in very good tune in the same room and conditions. At my own house, my M&H BB stays in amazing tune compared to my former Steinway L. Same room and conditions.

And of course everyone has their own tolerance for what is out of tune.

The point is that, other than the generically recommended 2 times a year, there’s no way to have a ‘standard’ for when to tune. It depends on your desires and the specific piano.

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 335
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 335
Originally Posted by Gene Nelson
An additional thought:
Temperature usually always moves simultaneous with relative humidity and temperature changes can have an almost immediate effect on the tuning.

I understand this is because the string length and tension that affect pitch are only related to metal objects (that is the string themselves and the cast iron frame) and metal responds immediately to temperature change, but practically never to humidity. Humidity only affects wood. It is a big issue when tuning wooden organ pipes.


Life is a smorgasbord, and I want to taste everything.
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714
E
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714
Wood takes on humidity much quicker than it gives it up. A few hours of fog and the pitch will start to rise. A few hours of arid air and nothing changes. It takes several days for drier air to cause the tuning to change.

That is why the damp chaser dehumidifier rods controlled by the humidistat really help reduce pitch movement.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,685
G
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,685
One could always come up with 100 grams of Sitka spruce and a gram scale.
Maybe two pieces, one unfinished the other with shellac coating and do some experimenting.


x-rpt
retired ptg member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 739
T
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 739
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Wood takes on humidity much quicker than it gives it up. A few hours of fog and the pitch will start to rise. A few hours of arid air and nothing changes. It takes several days for drier air to cause the tuning to change.

That is why the damp chaser dehumidifier rods controlled by the humidistat really help reduce pitch movement.

This has absolutely been my experience. If, after my air conditioning has kept the RH somewhere in the 40s for weeks, I decide (against my better judgement) to open my windows after a rainstorm, it just goes way outta whack in a big hurry. Upon closing the windows and turning the AC back on it gradually -over a period of days - goes back to (more or less) where it had been.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,563
H
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,563
Originally Posted by Gene Nelson
An additional thought:
Temperature usually always moves simultaneous with relative humidity and temperature changes can have an almost immediate effect on the tuning.

Especially the longest strings on the long bridge are affected more. It might make the intervals across the long and short bridges sound unpleasant.


Moderated by  Piano World, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,385
Posts3,349,185
Members111,631
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.