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Digital camera to record piano playing?
#3021898 09/06/20 09:15 AM
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Hi, not sure if this is the right forum, but I am looking for recommendations for a digital camera to record piano / ensemble playing in a home setting.

Something with good sound, that will last (don’t expect frequent use but use over many years), and simple (no fancy functions).

Also, is it ok to buy used digital cameras?


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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Soojin #3021921 09/06/20 10:27 AM
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Soojin, I do not own this, but a lot of PW members use the Zoom Q8 recorder:
https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-Q8-Hand...ds=zoom+q8&qid=1599402106&sr=8-2

I have a Zoom H4n Pro (audio only) and it works really well. The last recording I made, I actually recorded video on my iPhone and audio with the Zoom H4 and then used a software app to strip the cellphone audio out of the video file and sync the Zoom audio file to the video. It sounds way more complicated than it is, it was actually super easy to do. If you'd like to see it to hear the quality of the Zoom audio let me know and I can PM you.

Oh also, you might consider posting this question in the Adult Beginners Forum because I know a lot of people there use the Zoom Q8.

As for buying used video equipment... I think I would only consider it if it was from a resale shop that offered some kind of warranty or something. In other words, I don't think I'd buy from a private seller...


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Soojin #3021944 09/06/20 11:39 AM
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Zoom Q8 has a fisheye lens, and there are reviews that say video quality is not very good.

Decide yourself.

https://youtu.be/PHRwyShegA8

Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Soojin #3021951 09/06/20 11:58 AM
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Here's some past discussions on this topic, there's been many more.
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2819306/do-you-video-record-yourself.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2711905/1/the-latest-in-recording-piano.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2162885/Re:_best_camera_for_recording_.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2430330/My_recording_devices:ZOOM_Q8+R.html

You might also look at the two youtube videos that Cunningham pianos did on teaching remotely, it has a lot of great and up to date info on microphones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSdiBVFGXQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG91ZIrsdNU&t=1658s


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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
MarkL #3021955 09/06/20 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkL
You might also look at the two youtube videos that Cunningham pianos did on teaching remotely, it has a lot of great and up to date info on microphones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSdiBVFGXQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG91ZIrsdNU&t=1658s

You saved me the time of sharing these links, MarkL. Thanks.

If anyone would like the ultimate in a kit for recording your piano that sounds GREAT, these mics. are our "secret sauce".


Rich Galassini
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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Soojin #3021969 09/06/20 12:48 PM
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Great recommendations so far.

Similar to ShiroKuro, I usually use a two step process, and record the video with an old camcorder, and record the sound with the Zoom H4n. The sound quality on the H4n is superior to the built in mic in the camcorder. But for my purposes, the sound on the camcorder is not too bad. Sometimes I just use the sound on the camcorder and dress it up a bit with my video editing software.

To be honest, I've seen and heard some music videos made with the latest smartphones that were phenomenal, both video and audio. However, I'm an old guy with a flip-phone and don't have a smartphone. Guess I ain't that smart. smile

Keep in mind that if you upload your music video/recording to YouTube or DropBox, or Google, or whatever, there may be some digital compression that alters the quality to some extent.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Soojin #3021973 09/06/20 12:55 PM
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Hakki, thanks for posting that video. I really don't like that fish eye lens result! Is there no way around it? I was thinking I'd seen some videos that other people have shared here, maybe with the Q8, without that view/fish eye effect, but maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Rich, those "secret sauce" mics are a little too.... "secret" for my budget! grin


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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Rich Galassini #3021976 09/06/20 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by MarkL
You might also look at the two youtube videos that Cunningham pianos did on teaching remotely, it has a lot of great and up to date info on microphones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSdiBVFGXQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG91ZIrsdNU&t=1658s

You saved me the time of sharing these links, MarkL. Thanks.

If anyone would like the ultimate in a kit for recording your piano that sounds GREAT, these mics. are our "secret sauce".
Its not the price that concerns me as my Neumann KM184 were $1000, it's the apparent lack of shock mounting. Is this not an issue with these mics?
Ian


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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Soojin #3022040 09/06/20 02:46 PM
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Ian, note that these DPA 4099 mics are clip on instrument mics and are only 5.4 mm in diameter and are provided with the tiny shock mounts already installed on the gooseneck.

For the KM 184 (22 mm dia.) you should get the shock mount below, which will screw on to the magnetic gooseneck mic mount that I had posted in the other thread.

https://en-de.neumann.com/ea-2124-a-mt

Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
ShiroKuro #3022062 09/06/20 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Rich, those "secret sauce" mics are a little too.... "secret" for my budget! grin
The first video is for the Beverly Hills crowd. The second video is for the other side of town and has mikes that range from $30-200.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Soojin #3022113 09/06/20 04:48 PM
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There are enhanced mics that plug right into your phone. Better than the phone mic. Probably fine for recording your piano work. Doesn’t have to be Hollywood level does it?


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
WBLynch #3022166 09/06/20 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by WBLynch
There are enhanced mics that plug right into your phone. Better than the phone mic. Probably fine for recording your piano work. Doesn’t have to be Hollywood level does it?

A poster who used to post here a lot said that he used the Zoom brand mic for iPhone but that if you have a newer iPhone (i.e. 7 forward) it seems like the iPhone by itself is close enough to the quality of the mic that it seems pointless to use the mic.

if anyone is interested, I can find the link to the mic he described...


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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Rich Galassini #3022202 09/06/20 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by MarkL
You might also look at the two youtube videos that Cunningham pianos did on teaching remotely, it has a lot of great and up to date info on microphones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSdiBVFGXQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG91ZIrsdNU&t=1658s

You saved me the time of sharing these links, MarkL. Thanks.

If anyone would like the ultimate in a kit for recording your piano that sounds GREAT, these mics. are our "secret sauce".

Thanks so much for sharing the Audix microphones, Rich. They are new to me and sound fantastic! Also Hugh's recording of the Rachmaninoff Cello Sonata transcription is wonderful!

Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Soojin #3022206 09/06/20 08:00 PM
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Soojin, you asked about a digital camera to record pianos, but everyone is posting about mics. This is because you will need a separate mic and interface for the best sound. However, to answer your camera question, I would definitely go with a DSLR because of all the control you have with the depth of field and lighting. Below is an example video with my wife's Canon 5D Mark IV, which is a pretty expensive Canon. But I have a Canon 800D which is much cheaper, but gets the same video results with a good lens. This video is a test shot I did of my son playing a short piece. I was playing with the lighting and camera placement and have not optimized the sound. But it gives an idea of what the shot looks like from a DSLR.



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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Beemer #3022259 09/06/20 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Beemer
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
You saved me the time of sharing these links, MarkL. Thanks.

If anyone would like the ultimate in a kit for recording your piano that sounds GREAT, these mics. are our "secret sauce".
Its not the price that concerns me as my Neumann KM184 were $1000, it's the apparent lack of shock mounting. Is this not an issue with these mics?
Ian

Actually, inside each head the actual mic is suspended in the coolest shock mounting I have ever seen. They do an amazing job of suppressing external vibrations.

That's why it can be mounted right on the piano rim rather than suspended over it.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila., Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Soojin #3022298 09/07/20 04:14 AM
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I have a Sony FDR AX53, it records 1080p 50fps or 4k 25 fps. It's pretty good although I'm not sure what the audio is like as I mainly use other microphones, I can see if I can find some audio and upload it to you to see if it's satisfactory? Is there a place you can upload audio files for free?

I know the microphones can do 5.1 surround sound, which is not particularly useful for recording piano. Although I think mine is set up to record in PCM 2 channel stereo at the moment.

Last edited by WTM; 09/07/20 04:15 AM.

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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Hakki #3022328 09/07/20 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Ian, note that these DPA 4099 mics are clip on instrument mics and are only 5.4 mm in diameter and are provided with the tiny shock mounts already installed on the gooseneck.

For the KM 184 (22 mm dia.) you should get the shock mount below, which will screw on to the magnetic gooseneck mic mount that I had posted in the other thread.

https://en-de.neumann.com/ea-2124-a-mt
Thanks for the tip, but $500 for a pair of those mounts is too much. I think I'll stick with my floor mounts that sit on carpet.
Ian


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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Soojin #3022391 09/07/20 09:42 AM
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Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
WBLynch #3022602 09/07/20 07:38 PM
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I have a Shure MV88 that plugs into my iphone 7 plus and is much better than the phone mics. The associated app allows the user to select different recording approaches and stereo widths. It's affordable and I like the recorded sound. I recently recorded a piece using the mid-side technique and a wide stereo width: https://soundcloud.com/user-426538855/chopin-prelude-20-opus-28

It works with my iphone camera app.

Originally Posted by WBLynch
There are enhanced mics that plug right into your phone. Better than the phone mic. Probably fine for recording your piano work. Doesn’t have to be Hollywood level does it?

Re: Digital camera to record piano playing?
Rachtoven #3022604 09/07/20 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rachtoven
I have a Shure MV88 that plugs into my iphone 7 plus and is much better than the phone mics. The associated app allows the user to select different recording approaches and stereo widths. It's affordable and I like the recorded sound. I recently recorded a piece using the mid-side technique and a wide stereo width: https://soundcloud.com/user-426538855/chopin-prelude-20-opus-28

It works with my iphone camera app.

Originally Posted by WBLynch
There are enhanced mics that plug right into your phone. Better than the phone mic. Probably fine for recording your piano work. Doesn’t have to be Hollywood level does it?

This one, right?
https://www.amazon.com/Shure-MV88-Digital-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B010W6W8OW/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2NI8EWMXZJEEE&dchild=1&keywords=shure+mv88+microphone+for+iphone&qid=1599522390&sprefix=Shure+MV88+for+i%2Caps%2C179&sr=8-3

Just fyi, this is the mic that I was referring to above that was said to be not much better than the iPhone's mic:
https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-Microph...or+iphone&qid=1599522341&sr=8-14

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 09/07/20 07:49 PM.

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