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Sebs Offline OP
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Can someone please help with these?

What's the difference in X versus ## for double sharp?

Does double flat also have another symbol too?

When would you need a natural paired with a b/# together as one accidental? Would that be if the note before was a double sharp/flat? I assume this means the note is now natural then apply the the accidental thats paired with the natural? Or else you'd need a triple accidental.

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No difference. The X symbol is more common, but I suppose sometimes you'd see two sharp symbols.

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Originally Posted by Sebs
Can someone please help with these?

What's the difference in X versus ## for double sharp?

Does double flat also have another symbol too?

When would you need a natural paired with a b/# together as one accidental? Would that be if the note before was a double sharp/flat? I assume this means the note is now natural then apply the the accidental thats paired with the natural? Or else you'd need a triple accidental.

[Linked Image]

No. Accidentals don't have state. An accidental always indicates, by itself without reference to previous notation, the note to be played. Even if you have a double-flat, if you then have a sharp the note is sharp and that's the end of it.

All of the above are just alternate notation used in some older scores.

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Sebs Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Originally Posted by Sebs
Can someone please help with these?

What's the difference in X versus ## for double sharp?

Does double flat also have another symbol too?

When would you need a natural paired with a b/# together as one accidental? Would that be if the note before was a double sharp/flat? I assume this means the note is now natural then apply the the accidental thats paired with the natural? Or else you'd need a triple accidental.

[Linked Image]

No. Accidentals don't have state. An accidental always indicates, by itself without reference to previous notation, the note to be played. Even if you have a double-flat, if you then have a sharp the note is sharp and that's the end of it.

All of the above are just alternate notation used in some older scores.

Makes sense! And wth was I thinking.... I'm not even sure why I even thought that as know how they work. I guess I was trying to come up with a made reason to use the odd looking natural plus #/b hahah. Thanks for the help!

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Originally Posted by Sebs
Can someone please help with these?

What's the difference in X versus ## for double sharp?

Does double flat also have another symbol too?

When would you need a natural paired with a b/# together as one accidental? Would that be if the note before was a double sharp/flat? I assume this means the note is now natural then apply the the accidental thats paired with the natural? Or else you'd need a triple accidental.

[Linked Image]


There is something else going on with that example. When I first came across (nat)b and (nat)#, I was starting my studies of music theory. There were two alternatives given, the other being just a flat or sharp. My then-teacher explained that most scores don't have the natural in front (as per your example), but a few do. I think (?) he said that the combo version was an older convention, but I can't remember.

I suppose a different thinking went into both variants.
* (thinking 1) If your previous note was Abb, and then you have Ab, it's a brand new note - the Ab replacing the Abb as note. So you just write Ab (b in front of A, no natural sign).
* (thinking 2) If your previous note was Abb, moving the A down twice by two semitones, then one of the "move-downs" is cancelled via the accidental, which causes a "move back up" to your Ab. Someone thinking like that would write Ab as (nat. + 1 flat in front of A)

Since the time of that discussion long ago, I have hardly ever seen the variant in your example.

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The Schubert Impromptu, Op. 90, No. 4 in A-flat, measure 25 (third measure in this example) :

In some editions the A-sharp is preceded by a courtesy natural sign as in this edition from Breitkopf und Härtel and in my (old) Henle. In the new Henle, there is no natural sign. This is the Breitkopf:

[Linked Image]

In some other editions the natural sign seems to have disappeared.

Regards,


BruceD
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Quoted from WIKI
"Double accidentals raise or lower the pitch of a note by two semitones,[4] an innovation developed as early as 1615.[citation needed] This applies to the written note, ignoring key signature. An F with a double sharp applied raises it a whole step so it is enharmonically equivalent to a G.

Usage varies on how to notate the situation in which a note with a double sharp (or flat) is followed in the same measure by a note with a single sharp (or flat). Some publications simply use the single accidental for the latter note, whereas others use a combination of a natural and a sharp (shown below), with the natural being understood to apply to only the second sharp. "
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And it's use
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Whole Article
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Originally Posted by BruceD
The Schubert Impromptu, Op. 90, No. 4 in A-flat, measure 25 (third measure in this example) :

In some editions the A-sharp is preceded by a courtesy natural sign as in this edition from Breitkopf und Härtel and in my (old) Henle. In the new Henle, there is no natural sign. This is the Breitkopf:

[Linked Image]

In some other editions the natural sign seems to have disappeared.
My ancient ABRSM edition (ed. Franck Merrick, bought when I was a teenager about a century ago) has no courtesy natural sign.


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