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Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
#3020557 09/02/20 11:16 AM
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Hi

I intend to record a collection of solo piano pieces with the Yamaha P 515 using the CFX concert grand sample. The process would be to record directly to the P 515 USB flash drive as a digital stereo audio file recording at 16 bit 44.1 khz, after which all files would then be imported to a sequencer for minor editing and effects. The intention is for retail. Given the above recording scenario, would this be standard enough for a professional sale?

Comments welcome.

Last edited by Pianoworldstage; 09/02/20 11:21 AM.
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Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Pianoworldstage #3020568 09/02/20 12:01 PM
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I would do some tests if I were you. Direct record to audio file on a thumb drive resulted in very flat sound and very low volume tracks.
It was as if I would disable every effect and just record flat notes. Might be an issue with my particular unit.

But yeah if it works well it would certainly be the most hassle free method of achieving your goals. I'm not sure that it would be enough quality wise.

Last edited by mareg; 09/02/20 12:03 PM.

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Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Pianoworldstage #3020591 09/02/20 01:02 PM
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Hi Pianoworldstage.

You could try connecting your digital piano to a computer with an USB cable. Since P-515 has an integrated audio/midi interface, you should be able to record the digital audio signal into Audacity or another audio editing software. And there you will have more flexibility in adjusting volume and gain. You could also record inside a DAW like Cubase, Reaper or Ableton to add effects.

Don't forget to install the driver - search Google for "Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver".


Learning to write english correctly, please forgive my mistakes!
Yamaha JX113; Roland FP-80 & FP-7F; Garritan CFX; Steinberg UR22mkII; Sennheiser HD 579 & HD 569; Zoom H5.
Me on YouTube: Duo Matschulat
Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Pianoworldstage #3020596 09/02/20 01:13 PM
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I'd love to hear the result of this since I practice on a 515 a lot.

Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Pianoworldstage #3020634 09/02/20 04:08 PM
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I don't understand . . .

. . . How do you import a 16 bit audio file, from the P-515, to a sequencer ?


. Charles
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PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Pianoworldstage #3020698 09/02/20 07:33 PM
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One response given was,

Plenty of commercial material has been recorded at 16 bit 44.1kHz so I can't see it being an issue. However, according to the spec, the CFX grand sample has been recorded binaurally so will only sound correct through headphones unless further processing is applied. I would suggest choosing a sample set that is designed to be used with speakers.

OP here, I'm sure the above is factual, but could anyone further comment on that ?

Last edited by Pianoworldstage; 09/02/20 07:37 PM.
Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Pianoworldstage #3020707 09/02/20 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianoworldstage
Plenty of commercial material has been recorded at 16 bit 44.1kHz so I can't see it being an issue. However, according to the spec, the CFX grand sample has been recorded binaurally so will only sound correct through headphones unless further processing is applied. I would suggest choosing a sample set that is designed to be used with speakers.

Where does this information come from?

The second half of the recommendation is completely inaccurate.

The P-515 features two different CFX sounds: one intended for playback through speakers, another (binaural) intended for playback through headphones. I believe it is possible to specify which version of the sound is used when recording WAV audio to USB memory.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Pianoworldstage #3020711 09/02/20 08:17 PM
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There's a misunderstanding, here.

Records are _commercially released_ with 16-bit, 44.1 kHz samples. That's what standard CD players expect.

But the master recordings (if using acoustic pianos) are usually done with greater bit depth (24 or even 32 bits), and higher sampling frequency (48 kHz, 96 kHz, 192 kHz -- numbers like that).

That high-sample-rate, high-accuracy-sample "master recording" can be massaged quite a bit, without losing audible quality.

Try Googling:

. . . what bit rate is used for master recordings?

and read a bit.


. Charles
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PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Charles Cohen #3020755 09/03/20 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Pianoworldstage
Plenty of commercial material has been recorded at 16 bit 44.1kHz so I can't see it being an issue. However, according to the spec, the CFX grand sample has been recorded binaurally so will only sound correct through headphones unless further processing is applied. I would suggest choosing a sample set that is designed to be used with speakers.

Where does this information come from?

The second half of the recommendation is completely inaccurate.

The P-515 features two different CFX sounds: one intended for playback through speakers, another (binaural) intended for playback through headphones. I believe it is possible to specify which version of the sound is used when recording WAV audio to USB memory.

Kind regards,
James
x

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
There's a misunderstanding, here.

Records are _commercially released_ with 16-bit, 44.1 kHz samples. That's what standard CD players expect.

But the master recordings (if using acoustic pianos) are usually done with greater bit depth (24 or even 32 bits), and higher sampling frequency (48 kHz, 96 kHz, 192 kHz -- numbers like that).

That high-sample-rate, high-accuracy-sample "master recording" can be massaged quite a bit, without losing audible quality.

Try Googling:

. . . what bit rate is used for master recordings?

and read a bit.

According to Bad Mister (Phil Clendeninn), Yamaha's entire digital instruments use CD Quality sample rate which is 16-bit, 44.1 kHz.

At least this is the case in its synths which I believe share the same sample sets with its arrangers and DPs and usually the instrument has a fixed bit/rate and doesn't switch between let's say 16-bit and 24-bit etc as combination.

You should also note that P515 can record its out signal digitally through USB port. No need to up sample anything. Just hook it to a software like Audacity set the input source as Steinberg (probably) Autio Interface and record a wav/mp3 file.

Last edited by Abdol; 09/03/20 01:04 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Abdol #3020765 09/03/20 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
. . .According to Bad Mister (Phil Clendeninn), Yamaha's entire digital instruments use CD Quality sample rate which is 16-bit, 44.1 kHz. . . .

Yes, 16-bit / 44.1 kHz is "CD quality", which is fine for playback (IMHO).

I'm sorry I was ambiguous:

I was talking about recordings of _acoustic_ pianos. Those, because they'll be further processed, are done at higher sample rates, with larger-than-16-bit samples.

Since the OP mentions doing some post-recording processing, another few bits might be useful to maintain quality.

I'm not sure whether current "virtual pianos" use more-than-16-bit samples, and sampling rates of more than 44.1 (or 48) kHz.


. Charles
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PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Kawai James #3020883 09/03/20 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Pianoworldstage
Plenty of commercial material has been recorded at 16 bit 44.1kHz so I can't see it being an issue. However, according to the spec, the CFX grand sample has been recorded binaurally so will only sound correct through headphones unless further processing is applied. I would suggest choosing a sample set that is designed to be used with speakers.

Where does this information come from?

The second half of the recommendation is completely inaccurate.

The P-515 features two different CFX sounds: one intended for playback through speakers, another (binaural) intended for playback through headphones. I believe it is possible to specify which version of the sound is used when recording WAV audio to USB memory.

Kind regards,
James
x


I completely agree James,

Here is a second response from the user.

Through speakers a binaural recording would sound unfocussed and spread out. This may work if you want to create a larger than life illusion but it may also sound odd to listeners who are expecting a normal piano sound.

OP here, my response was,

It sounds as though your referring to the effect of a listeners or audience prospective, if that's the case? When recording using headphones with the CFX one has the option to enable or disable the stereophonic optimization "binaural" effect, resulting in either a listeners or audience perspective of that WAV audio to USB memory recording.

Am i correct?

Last edited by Pianoworldstage; 09/03/20 11:25 AM.
Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Pianoworldstage #3021024 09/03/20 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianoworldstage
Am i correct?

Yes, I believe so. I do not have immediate access to a P-515 to check this point for myself, however based on the forum posts of other P-515/Yamaha owner's in this forum, I believe it is indeed possible to disable the binaural CFX feature when recording.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Pianoworldstage #3021048 09/03/20 09:39 PM
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Binaural Sampling (“CFX Grand” Voice only)

Binaural sampling is a method that uses two special microphones set at the ear position of a performer and records the sound from a piano as it is. Listening to the sound with this effect through headphones gives the impression of being immersed in the sound, as if it was actually emanating from the piano. Moreover, you can enjoy the sound naturally for a long time without ear strain. When the default voice, CFX Grand is selected, connecting the headphones automatically enables the binaural sampling sound.

Stereophonic Optimizer (Voices in the Piano group other than CFX Grand.

The Stereophonic Optimizer is an effect which reproduces natural sound distance like the sound of binaural sampling even though you hear it on headphones. When a Voice in the Piano group other than CFX Grand is selected, connecting the headphones automatically enables the Stereophonic Optimizer. When headphones are connected, the Voices in the Piano group automatically change to the sound of Binaural Sampling or the sound enhanced with the Stereophonic Optimizer, by the default settings.

However, when headphones are connected, these functions affect the sound from the external speaker connected to the AUX OUT jacks or the sound for Audio recording and may result in those sounds sounding unusual.

Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
mareg #3023497 09/10/20 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mareg
I would do some tests if I were you. Direct record to audio file on a thumb drive resulted in very flat sound and very low volume tracks.
It was as if I would disable every effect and just record flat notes. Might be an issue with my particular unit.

But yeah if it works well it would certainly be the most hassle free method of achieving your goals. I'm not sure that it would be enough quality wise.

I am going to try this tonight (with CLP-645), I'm really glad I've known about Steinberg USB Driver on this forum (already tested it with Pianoteq a bit, but not with recording yet) - it's really strange, that it isn't discussed in any of the piano reviews I read online - I even wanted to buy an external audio card for ASIO support.

When I sent one of my early recordings to my friend (with both wav and midi formats) - he said he couldn't quite tell the difference between my audio file and the midi file played via S-YXG50 Portable VSTi (Yamaha's soft midi synthesizer from early 2000's which is about 5Mb size)... But the low volume level is the worst thing - I have to max the volume of my phone if I want to listen to my recording with headphones. This is another example of what is strangely not discussed in the reviews.

Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Pianoworldstage #3023568 09/10/20 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Pianoworldstage
Hi

I intend to record a collection of solo piano pieces with the Yamaha P 515 using the CFX concert grand sample. The process would be to record directly to the P 515 USB flash drive as a digital stereo audio file recording at 16 bit 44.1 khz, after which all files would then be imported to a sequencer for minor editing and effects. The intention is for retail. Given the above recording scenario, would this be standard enough for a professional sale?

Comments welcome.


P-515 is equipped with an audio interface. You only record the MIDI file. You import the MIDI file in your DAW, you make the corrections. My suggestion is to override the on board effects (as they usually are crap compared to VSTs). After all corrections and mixing, you do your final mastering and you're done.

You can use P-515 as a sound module to render the final MIDI result.

Google "how to mix and master piano" and read about it thoroughly if you're not familair with it.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Yamaha P 515 Recording ???
Abdol #3023654 09/10/20 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
P-515 is equipped with an audio interface. You only record the MIDI file. You import the MIDI file in your DAW, you make the corrections. My suggestion is to override the on board effects (as they usually are crap compared to VSTs). After all corrections and mixing, you do your final mastering and you're done.

Just a small clarification for readers: P-515 is equipped with an audio and MIDI interface. Both will show simultaneously on the computer when you connect the piano with a single USB cable, and you can use both at the same time. And both allow for input and output (audio in/out and MIDI in/out).


Learning to write english correctly, please forgive my mistakes!
Yamaha JX113; Roland FP-80 & FP-7F; Garritan CFX; Steinberg UR22mkII; Sennheiser HD 579 & HD 569; Zoom H5.
Me on YouTube: Duo Matschulat

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